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Discussion: The perfect player, Which civ will he play?
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LetmewinPlz
post Sep 21 2022, 10:56 AM
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Imagine there was aom player with 100% win rate on any given map and any given matchup. His macro is perfect, his mircro is perfect and he always chooses the right strategy. But his most important objective is to maintain his 100% win rate. Let's do a reflection on what civilizations or if even a specific civilization allows this player to maintain his absurd win rate.

Disclaimer: This is not a post for balance issues. No player plays perfect. I am imagining a hypothetical world.

I'll try to analyze it going each civ one by one. You can also do your own in the reply.

I-Norse

1-Odin/Loki The player will more than likely have superb game on high hunt, but will loose a matchup on a very low hunt map, with his second hunt plentiful but very forward and with a forward goldmine. He wouldn't loose every matchup but he'll lose much more than he will win on this map.

2-Thor I think if the player will be a Norse main, he will be most likely Thor. The gold wouldn't be the big problem as the previous gods, but imagine this player meets the second best person though not perfect, but plays Zeus or Oranos on the previously mentioned map. The Thor player could theoretically get Skady on this map, but I don't know if he will beat the Oranos or Zeus reliably. In this one I will go maybe.

II-Atlanteans

I will start to mention that the perfect player won't play Atlanteans as he has perfect micro and no point in using atties citizens. But let's assume he does:

3-Gaia I think even the perfect Gaia player will struggle against a good Loki on high hunt if his gold is exposed.

4-Kronos If the opponent's gold is too safe and he has plenty of hunt in base, a good second tc with gold and hunt, I don't think the perfect Kronos can beat him if the other player plays the matchup right with good decision making.

5-Oranos Again if the map is too safe and wallable, I don't see Oranos winning. I think the second best Egyptian or second best Greek will be able to win him.

III-Egyptian

6-Isis Isis suffers the same problem as the Norse, I think she can be beaten if the map is too bad for her.

7-Ra I think Ra will loose an aggressive high hunt forward gold map most of the times. Or even medit maps.

8-Set Set will also struggle on low hunt maps, although with animals there is a case for him. I am going to put him in the same category as Thor: Maybe.

IV-Greek

Finally for me I think the perfect player will be a greek main. They are the most balanced civ and don't suffer from harsh maps.

9-Poseidon I think out of the three greeks, the perfect player wouldn't play Poseidon, due to his problem vs Norse and his weak rushing ability. On water he might be inferior vs Zeus or Hades.

10-Hades Hades would be his considerate choice, as personally I think Hades shouldn't lose any matchup. However there is no denying he struggle vs myth unit heavy civilizations. I don't know imo with perfect play, you could play around that weakness and the perfect player might choose Hades. Candidate.

11-Zeus Finally Zeus. Imo the perfect player will be a Zeus main. In theory he shouldn't loose any matchup except maybe Hades on a closed map. The fact that Zeus and Hades coexist makes impossible to determine which civ he will choose.

In conclusion, the perfect player will either be a Zeus or Hades player. But you may have a different opinion and I would be more than ready to read your replies. This debate is an opener to many of more questions: Do different civs have different level ceilings? Which gods benefit more from perfect play? Do mistakes and imperfections by players influence our perception of balance?

This post has been edited by LetmewinPlz: Sep 21 2022, 12:26 PM

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Jo.G
post Sep 21 2022, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE(LetmewinPlz @ Sep 21 2022, 04:56 PM)
Do different civs have different level ceilings? Which gods benefit more from perfect play? Do mistakes and imperfections by players influence our perception of balance?
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Obviously atlanteans have the "easiest" level ceiling, this not makes them the best civ by default, but it's also obvious that macro-intensive civs will struggle a lot against atlanteans on specific maps.

It's not a case that sometimes 1650 atlantean playes can grab a win even vs 1900+ players, due to the fact that atlanteans require less attention to details especially early on and are less prone to being punished by incorrect decisions or bad strat executions.

This post has been edited by Jo.G: Sep 21 2022, 12:19 PM

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Oskar
post Sep 21 2022, 02:57 PM
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a perfect player will never lose using odin since he is the god that has the biggest advantage with pach, he will never lose using hades since hades is the centinal upgrade and his reach is almost a perfect god on all maps. but a perfect player could never beat greek or egyptian in anatolia using oranos.

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Mor_legendary
post Sep 21 2022, 10:12 PM
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I think that seth and thor are decent.
they can be good in hight\sea maps. and be ok on low hunt since them features.


oranos is not depheneded on the map. of course the more agresive map then the more the oranos player can be agresive and abuse his clasical age forces.

but even on a safe map. lets say alfheim oranos vs seth safe 3 tc safe gold mine. the ora can just go 2 tc archaic. and semi fast heroic. the sky passege helps to gold block even on "safe map" since all you do is sneak vill to the other side of map where the second gold is.

I honestly think that zeus is decent too. hades is not strong to my opinion. its very good but think about playing hades on marsh vs an odin? his boom will be stronger. also I doubte if hades late game can beat ra late game. hades late game strong but it has no merc. no impower on trade. no roc.


This post has been edited by Mor_legendary: Sep 21 2022, 10:15 PM

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SnL_NoMercy
post Sep 22 2022, 08:05 PM
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Ora never looses if played perfectly :teehee:

Even if greek has safe res on 2nd tc you just have mobility and more economy play for a mythic timing push.

I agree with the zeus/hades at high lvl they are very strong choice.

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Mor_legendary
post Sep 22 2022, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE(SnL_NoMercy @ Sep 22 2022, 08:05 PM)
Ora never looses if played perfectly  :teehee:

Even if greek has safe res on 2nd tc you just have mobility and more economy play for a mythic timing push.

I agree with the zeus/hades at high lvl they are very strong choice.
*


bull poopie.
I

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3antozz
post Sep 23 2022, 03:04 PM
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perfect player would never lose with oranos because oranos's only weakness is late game, which a perfect player wouldn't reach because he will win before that. so 1st perfect player would be oranos, 2nd would be zeus!

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Oskar
post Sep 23 2022, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE(3antozz @ Sep 23 2022, 04:04 PM)
perfect player would never lose with oranos because oranos's only weakness is late game, which a perfect player wouldn't reach because he will win before that. so 1st perfect player would be oranos, 2nd would be zeus!
*




just because this guy doesn't know how to play oranos doesn't mean oranos is a good god, with oranos you have to deal with the weakest army in the game and a horrible late game, i would like to see this guy using oranos trying to beat odin or loki or the initial push of zeus hermes would run away to his bloated god possy.

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_Ricky_
post Sep 29 2022, 06:15 PM
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Magyar retired ages ago, time to forget. Now there's cheap players like mor at top of ladder.

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Pikachu
post Oct 6 2022, 05:13 PM
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Magyar, King, Mista at their prime all came close to this perfect player you described. They all used Zeus, so you may be right in your assessment.



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