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Does God Exist?, sci/cre debate
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Pip
post Nov 25 2006, 10:03 PM
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Lmao k. You never rebutted my previous posts, you don't seem to want to rebutt any of my new ones, and now you're acting like a child.

Stargazer, please stop wasting my oxygen. xD

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StarGazeR
post Nov 25 2006, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE(Pipamatician @ Nov 25 2006, 09:03 PM)
Lmao k. You never rebutted my previous posts, you don't seem to want to rebutt any of my new ones, and now you're acting like a child.

Stargazer, please stop wasting my oxygen. xD
*




I don't have to rebutt you. In a day or two you will rebutt yourself.

QUOTE(Pipamatician @ Nov 21 2006, 07:31 PM)
Every person has a purpose, even if it is to serve as a warning to others. They did not fail, in fact they probably lived out their lives exactly the way they should have, to teach us about wrong and evil. Without badness and crappy things in life, we'd never realise just how precious the good ones are.
*



QUOTE(Pipamatician @ Nov 25 2006, 06:41 PM)
Stargazer, the problem with your logic is that by your definition, free will is already dictated by fate and you have no choice at all. But I disagree with a simple logic argument.

If I have two choices, will fate lead me to one? No, I have to decide between them. If fate leads me to one of them, then that means it doesn't matter which one I choose, because fate will basically lead me to the correct one. This leads to the illusion that you don't have to do anything in life, because fate will lead you along the way and guide you, resulting in a bum who doesn't achieve anything in life because everything is connected and nothing is random.

Since this is most likely incorrect, I don't think many of us want to fall into this trap, you can assume that fate doesn't guide us, unless your fate is to become a bum. This leads to the ONLY other possibility, that you have two choices, to put in the extra work, or to slack around. This seems EXACTLY like life, and yes it can be completely random.
*



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MeRcY_NeVeR
post Dec 23 2006, 06:09 PM
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Ok I read the 1st 2 pages and the 4th page. Damn some of thoese posts are long and take forever to read. So i read page 3 some other day. Anwyay...i read some intresting points and some really retarded points.

YES God Does exist.

hmmm i read somewhere
QUOTE
lol its so naive and childish to believe in a god like the world religions do >_<



ONly thing that is childish is that statment :flowers:


LoL Some Guy pip or somethign started waffling about anti particles and what not. Dude there is alot of different kind of anti particles.

U cant say the big bang started from 2 anti-particles etc....there is different anti-particels ..ie anti electrons anti protons etc...its endless....or were u talking about the "special" anti particles that give's life....give me a break...stupid theroies.

Ok i read somewhere..this Imam said an intresting thing about the Big Bang and Evoultion. Ok take a glass and drop it. Then take another glass..and drop it...both glasses will never shatter the same way twice....keep doing it for infinaty and the glass will always split a diff way. So if u take the "big bang" how did....1 bang create the universe that we live in now...its beyond reason. I Cant belive that 1 bacteria....evolved into everything we are today. Evoultion...well would u not say if that was true..,...that some other race most be evolving that may be smarter then us...well nothin has changed for the last 10 000 years....or will u sceitnists say no we msut wait another 100million years,,,

Why i beleive in god? Well i understand alot of concepts about my faith and i doubt any human could come up with soem of the logic behind it 1400 years ago. When u take the human body itself..and how we repair are selfs and how all diff things do there jobs.....i cant belive that this all happened bec of a big bang it was god. Some1 said that its beyond are understanding to cope with beliveing god is infiative...yea i agree bec we as a human cant i belive understand somehting liek that....or we arent ment too.

Well In Islam we are ment to spread the message, PEACEFULLY btw, but God even says it in the quarn..that ppl will not listen...whatever proof u show them. Take the Jews....when Mosses saved them from the Pharoh and God opened the Sea to save them....then it closes on top of the pharoh and his army...mosses leaves to go recieve the commandments from god. He returns 30 days later and they are worshiping a cow!!!! :boxed: THis is what i mean...jsut some ppl will neever believe in god wheather or not...they see miracles...or not.


To Be Honest, i pity those that dont belive in god. To feel pity....i doubt that also came from a bacteria :whistling:


For ppl also to say ppl are cowards to belive in god....some idiot said soemthign like that in a earlier post. Well man ur all mighty arnt u.....i wonder what it must feel not to beleive in god to be honest i would say life is just dull......like and what of after....u jsut beocme dirt....
U Just have a large Ego...and thats another example of another retarded example.

anyway i am going to quit this topic....i want to see what ppl say and then continue....hmmm my points all over palce but i joined topic too late. :lol:





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Viper
post Dec 25 2006, 08:50 AM
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Your sentence structure reminds me of someone we recently banned from this site.

Anyway, back on topic...

QUOTE
i wonder what it must feel not to beleive in god to be honest i would say life is just dull......like and what of after....u jsut beocme dirt....

How is life "dull" without religion? I'd say it'd be a lot more peaceful. Less wars certainly. And what happens when we die? Well, our tissues decompose and seep into the earth, to be consumed by bugs, which then get eaten by birds, which then get eaten by... well, lots of bigger animals, which we then eat. It's called the circle of life (otherwise known as the food chain :P), and that is the end result of human existence.

Unless of course you get cremated, in which case you become a bunch of carbon dust that isn't of much use to anyone :)

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StarGazeR
post Dec 25 2006, 08:58 PM
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Alright, let's take this up a notch. :thumbsup:

Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism

QUOTE
See how evolutionist scientists responded to this article through exchanges with the author:

The debate between proponents of evolutionism and creation scientists concerning thermodynamics seems likely to continue without end.  This is not because the laws of thermodynamics (and their ramifications) are subject to debate or relativistic interpretation, but because a handful of dogmatic evolutionists continue to vocally and energetically deny the truth concerning a simple matter of scientific knowledge:
The second law presents an insurmountable problem to the concept of a natural, mechanistic process: (1) by which the physical universe could have formed spontaneously from nothing, and (2) by which biological life could have arisen and diversified (also spontaneously) from a non-living, inanimate world.  (Both postulates form essential planks in the platform of evolutionary theory in general.)
While many highly qualified scientists who number themselves in the camp of evolutionism are candid enough to acknowledge this problem, the propagandists of evolution prefer to claim the only “problem” is that creationists “misunderstand” real thermodynamics.

This strategy is exemplified in Frank Steiger’s Thermodynamics FAQs in the Talk.Origins Archive, one title of which (“Attributing False Attributes to Thermodynamics”) may be said to better describe the “how-to” nature of his text than his case against the creationist writers he wishes to discredit.

Steiger accuses creationists of having created “voodoo” thermodynamics based solely on metaphors, and provides Talk.Origins readers with a detailed, albeit error-ridden, treatise on the subject.  But while he may appear to have a handle on the mathematics and applied science of thermodynamics, Steiger himself steps out of the realm of scientific knowledge to defend the standard dogma of the evolutionist faith, using his own metaphors and semantic smoke and mirrors to make evolutionism appear immune to the best established scientific law known to man.


Read the rest of this article here:
http://www.trueorigin.org/steiger.asp

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MeRcY_NeVeR
post Dec 26 2006, 02:51 AM
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And some guy on eso today demaned i prove God Existed on the spot and wanted me to debate with him in Expert chat. I didnt answer his question so he assumed he won the debate. Lol in order for a debate i msut give an answer but what can i say the guy is an idiot. This is an intresting site i found. I will paste a passge then post the link. I belive in god bec of my own views that correspond to what i am about to paste :


anyway here u go KaerbEmEvig



http://rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?portal=A...showtopic=77671

Psot link bec i posted the article in wrong topic :P


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Cloud_Ex
post Jan 5 2007, 11:00 AM
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Here is something interesting :)

http://www.speed-light.info/

Mercy Never, if you spend too much time explaining someone why your path is the right one, you might not have the time to follow it yourself. Try explaining, but if someone is mocking with it, then just forget about them.

This post has been edited by Cloud_Ex: Jan 5 2007, 11:03 AM

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chucknthem
post Jan 5 2007, 11:12 AM
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" 1400 years ago it was stated in the Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 1000 lunar years, that is, 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day. Outside gravitational fields 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day turned out to be the known speed of light!"

1000 lunar years in one earth day = 1000 lunar orbits/earth day, how does that equal 12000 lunar orbits / earth day? :blink:

1 lunar year is 1 orbit (e.i. 1 month, just like 1 earth year is 1 orbit which is 12 month)
so 1000 lunar years/1 earth day * 1lunarorbit/1lunaryear=1000lunar orbits/1earth day
the stoichiometry doesn't work out to be 12000orbits per earth day...

This post has been edited by chucknthem: Jan 5 2007, 11:23 AM

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plexiq
post Jan 5 2007, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE(StarGazeR @ Dec 26 2006, 02:58 AM)
Alright, let's take this up a notch.  :thumbsup:

Thermodynamics vs. Evolutionism

...

Read the rest of this article here:
http://www.trueorigin.org/steiger.asp
*


I found some of the responses to be very interesting, the paragraphs quoted below describe well how i think about this:
QUOTE
Your are taking the 2LOT (* = 2nd law of thermo-dynamics) out of the context where it is defined, and simply assuming that what you call the G2L (* = "Generalized 2nd law") is equally valid. Like I said in my first message, you are more than welcome to propose your own law. Just don’t pretend that the evidence in favor of the 2LOT applies to it. It either is the same law or it isn’t, you can’t have it both ways.
QUOTE
Yes, the second law does apply to open systems, but what the second law says is still defined in terms of a closed system. The second law does _NOT_ say “Entropy still tends to increase, but temporary exceptions are allowed if you have an open system”. It says “Take your open system, include anything it exchanges energy with in order to make a combined closed system, and then calculate the total entropy of that”. The 2LOT applies to open systems only in the sense that they must be included as part of a closed system. If one does the calculation for the earth, one can easily show that the presence of life barely makes a dent in the entropy gain of the sun radiating out into space. Embarassed at how easily their argument falls apart, some creationists have deliberately tried to confuse this issue, and you seem to have inadvertently picked up some of their tactics.


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Cloud_Ex
post Jan 5 2007, 01:42 PM
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QUOTE
1 lunar year is 1 orbit (e.i. 1 month, just like 1 earth year is 1 orbit which is 12 month)


No its not, a lunar year is shorter. Why do you think that the ramadan (month in which moslims vast) gets earlier each year? Because we follow the lunar calander. In about ten years from now, it will be in the mid of summer where you will have to vast for 19 hours! It keeps moving, because it is shorter.

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MeRcY_NeVeR
post Jan 5 2007, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE
" 1400 years ago it was stated in the Quran (Koran, the book of Islam) that angels travel in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 1000 lunar years, that is, 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day. Outside gravitational fields 12000 Lunar Orbits / Earth Day turned out to be the known speed of light!"

1000 lunar years in one earth day = 1000 lunar orbits/earth day, how does that equal 12000 lunar orbits / earth day?

1 lunar year is 1 orbit (e.i. 1 month, just like 1 earth year is 1 orbit which is 12 month)
so 1000 lunar years/1 earth day * 1lunarorbit/1lunaryear=1000lunar orbits/1earth day
the stoichiometry doesn't work out to be 12000orbits per earth day...


As Cloud said muslim Calender is shorter then ur yearly calender. I think its 12 days shorter. So the sums then make up :D

HeHE didnt read this topic in awhile got to reply.

QUOTE
Mercy Never, if you spend too much time explaining someone why your path is the right one, you might not have the time to follow it yourself. Try explaining, but if someone is mocking with it, then just forget about them.


I am not preaching it is the right 1 i am only describing why i believe in Allah through Islam. And if i did i will still have time to practise it because its the way of my life. And if some1 mocks it i dont reply. I am just helping people online....that have questions about Islam and want to argue some points which makes me IMO stronger in my faith reserching etc ;D But thank You for ur concern.


QUOTE
Your sentence structure reminds me of someone we recently banned from this site.


I thought we allowed tot alk about anything in here.....or u just out to get me :chinese:


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chucknthem
post Jan 5 2007, 06:23 PM
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well, if you look at the math, whether one lunar year as a unit of time = one earth month or not does not matter to the calculations. I should have defined that earlier, but lunar year(i.e. lunar orbit) should have been defined as a unit of distance because in that context, I was referring to the "distance traveled in one lunar year/orbit(but that was too long to write as a variable each time :P) I'll call it DTPLO(distance traveled per lunar orbit)

so the calculation still stands at 1000 DTPLO/earth day

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Cloud_Ex
post Jan 7 2007, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE(chucknthem @ Jan 5 2007, 11:23 PM)
well, if you look at the math, whether one lunar year as a unit of time = one earth month or not does not matter to the calculations. I should have defined that earlier, but lunar year(i.e. lunar orbit) should have been defined as a unit of distance because in that context, I was referring to the "distance traveled in one lunar year/orbit(but that was too long to write as a variable each time :P) I'll call it DTPLO(distance traveled per lunar orbit)

so the calculation still stands at 1000 DTPLO/earth day
*



So the link is correct :teehee:

Lets take a look at something really simpel.

QUOTE
Tectonics
Earth's crust has been slowly moving for billions of years. Not only mountains are still slowly moving but also whole continents. Moslems say that this is what Allah says:

[Quran 27.88] You see the mountains and think they are firmly fixed: but they are moving away just like the clouds are moving away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, Who disposes of all things in perfect order: for He knows all what you do.


or

QUOTE
Atmospheric Pressure

Atmospheric pressure decreases with altitude; The higher the altitude the more difficult breathing becomes. Moslems say that this is what Allah says. The Quran says that as we ascend to the sky it becomes more difficult for us to breath:

[Quran 6.125]  Those whom Allah wants to guide, He opens their chests to Islam; And those whom He wants to leave astray, He makes their chests tight and constricted, as if they are ascending to the sky: Such is the penalty of Allah on those who refuse to believe.


Things an illitirate man couldnt possibly have known 1400 years ago.

Read the part about black holes and netron stars. That really shocked me, the quran has described it in the most simpel yet clear way possible. Kinda scary each time again.

Also watch what the link says about evolution at the end of the page.

You can find here some info about more ethical issues in Islam.

http://www.55a.net/firas/english/index.php

QUOTE
I am not preaching it is the right 1 i am only describing why i believe in Allah through Islam. And if i did i will still have time to practise it because its the way of my life. And if some1 mocks it i dont reply. I am just helping people online....that have questions about Islam and want to argue some points which makes me IMO stronger in my faith reserching etc ;D But thank You for ur concern.


Im glad you have time for it, I used to argue alot with people who were mocking with islam, I found out that all of my effort was ussless. They had already made up there mind and only wanted to laug at it. I could have read the koran or could have done something else which was much more ussfull, that's the only thing im saying. But untill now I have'nt seen anything bad about islam here, so I am willing to respond at some questions too.

cya



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