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ra vs norses (thor, loki)
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[SpNz]Mila
post Apr 30 2013, 11:26 AM
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hi, im posting to see if you could giveme some tips vs norses, especialy loki and thor, my problem is that i dont know how to face their bragi semi fh


is full clasic push efective? vs norses in heroic?
fh never worked fine enough for me, but is it a good choice vs a boom+fh norse?


i know about ss and locust are letal vs norses, but still i think it's my hardest matchup, i play more comfortable vs atys than vs norses :S

any tip is apreciated :wub:

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BestVayneNA
post Apr 30 2013, 02:02 PM
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Watch some fruiting recs

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DoD_Gropes
post Apr 30 2013, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE([DoD_�)
Assault__,May 1 2013, 08:02 AM]
Watch some fruiting recs
*



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DoD_Jollyman
post Apr 30 2013, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE([SpNz�)
Mila,May 1 2013, 04:26 AM]
hi, im posting to see if you could giveme some tips vs norses, especialy loki and thor, my problem is that i dont know how to face their bragi semi fh


is full clasic push efective? vs norses in heroic?
fh never worked fine enough for me, but is it a good choice vs a boom+fh norse?


i know about ss and locust are letal vs norses, but still i think it's my hardest matchup, i play more comfortable vs atys than vs norses :S

any tip is apreciated  :wub:
*



It'll be a play-style thing. I suck balls vs atty and can't get my head around the matchup and any of the timings for pushing or understanding when to boom/agression etc.

Norse is a little better for me.

I'll lay down a couple of ideas to give you some understanding on the game mechanics and the matchup.

You have 2 options vs loki/thor. Bast or Ptah. Now both have their advantages, and it's really map dependent and your playstyle too.

Bast- enables strong eco, strong myth unit early on, and eclipse to secure map/block gp/push for 2nd gold/and raiding ability also can kill buildings.

Ptah - shift sand (arguably the best classical gp, due to it's versatility)/ can kill his vills early/shift his fw/shift your army to a key area/shift your army away from a bad position/cheaper farms.

Now with this information I break down when to use what where.

I split it like this

High hunt or Low hunt.
Then close or open.

If I was high hunt and closed, I'd generally be going fast heroic with bast-semi fh and going ellie pet. Kill his vills with pets, tcs with ellies and use eclipse to block his fw and win.

High hunt open - Now this comes down to goldmines. Good mines, you can either bast fh and raid and locust him with sphinx/camels/ca, or you can up 4~ shift vills back then jump heroic and raid.
If it's bad mines- I'd be upping ptah to shift his vills back which then gives you some good time to either fast heroic (baghar style) or go firefox style and make some military (no aq!) grab some map control (tcs) and snowball your eco. The rest is up to you on judging military production.

Low hunt closed - here you should just be raping his poopie with ellies pets
low hunt open (normally this means hunt is in middle and you can't access it, because to ra the map is low hunt) These are your hardest matchups, I like to classic fight here and save shift sands or eclipse for your 2nd gold mine fight :)



Now that is just a general guide, you need to judge each matchup on what your god can achieve (you can't effectively shiftsand on low hunt to up early enough), the goldmines and his strat choice. If it's a safe gold marsh and he's not rushing you and has 2 tcs, don't classic fight him 11.

If you have any other specific questions or recs for me to watch I can help you with that. I can't be bothered going more in depth on what I have written here.

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[SpNz]Mila
post Apr 30 2013, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE(JollyPop @ Apr 30 2013, 10:58 PM)
QUOTE([SpNz�)
Mila,May 1 2013, 04:26 AM]
hi, im posting to see if you could giveme some tips vs norses, especialy loki and thor, my problem is that i dont know how to face their bragi semi fh


is full clasic push efective? vs norses in heroic?
fh never worked fine enough for me, but is it a good choice vs a boom+fh norse?


i know about ss and locust are letal vs norses, but still i think it's my hardest matchup, i play more comfortable vs atys than vs norses :S

any tip is apreciated   :wub:
*



It'll be a play-style thing. I suck balls vs atty and can't get my head around the matchup and any of the timings for pushing or understanding when to boom/agression etc.

Norse is a little better for me.

I'll lay down a couple of ideas to give you some understanding on the game mechanics and the matchup.

You have 2 options vs loki/thor. Bast or Ptah. Now both have their advantages, and it's really map dependent and your playstyle too.

Bast- enables strong eco, strong myth unit early on, and eclipse to secure map/block gp/push for 2nd gold/and raiding ability also can kill buildings.

Ptah - shift sand (arguably the best classical gp, due to it's versatility)/ can kill his vills early/shift his fw/shift your army to a key area/shift your army away from a bad position/cheaper farms.

Now with this information I break down when to use what where.

I split it like this

High hunt or Low hunt.
Then close or open.

If I was high hunt and closed, I'd generally be going fast heroic with bast-semi fh and going ellie pet. Kill his vills with pets, tcs with ellies and use eclipse to block his fw and win.

High hunt open - Now this comes down to goldmines. Good mines, you can either bast fh and raid and locust him with sphinx/camels/ca, or you can up 4~ shift vills back then jump heroic and raid.
If it's bad mines- I'd be upping ptah to shift his vills back which then gives you some good time to either fast heroic (baghar style) or go firefox style and make some military (no aq!) grab some map control (tcs) and snowball your eco. The rest is up to you on judging military production.

Low hunt closed - here you should just be raping his poopie with ellies pets
low hunt open (normally this means hunt is in middle and you can't access it, because to ra the map is low hunt) These are your hardest matchups, I like to classic fight here and save shift sands or eclipse for your 2nd gold mine fight :)



Now that is just a general guide, you need to judge each matchup on what your god can achieve (you can't effectively shiftsand on low hunt to up early enough), the goldmines and his strat choice. If it's a safe gold marsh and he's not rushing you and has 2 tcs, don't classic fight him 11.

If you have any other specific questions or recs for me to watch I can help you with that. I can't be bothered going more in depth on what I have written here.
*



thanks man very useful tips :P

I usualy try to play ChronoJJ style, good eco ptah cf, im not a big bast fan but i think i r n00b modus operandi vs norses can work for me :P

i'll try to get some recs somehow :P

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DoD_Jollyman
post Apr 30 2013, 11:39 PM
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Haha when Chrono was good was a playstyle that isn't that great today. His style vs egyptian is still good though. He plays a little lazy now and just 2 tcs everygame.

I suggest watching Geeft recs

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[SpNz]Mila
post May 1 2013, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE(JollyPop @ May 1 2013, 01:39 AM)
Haha when Chrono was good was a playstyle that isn't that great today. His style vs egyptian is still good though. He plays a little lazy now and just 2 tcs everygame.

I suggest watching Geeft recs
*



sory can you be more specific about the guy's tag? :P i find nothing with "Geeft"
forgive my ignorance 11

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Mirez
post May 1 2013, 02:03 AM
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Search for "jijgeeft" or "tylerdurden"

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DoD_Jollyman
post May 1 2013, 05:24 PM
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miepmiep
post May 13 2013, 03:08 AM
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ra vs norse seems to be pretty easy.... Im not such a good ra player, but I can still say :

highfood: rush with shifting sand ---> get one of his tc's ----> get a big army to secure gold ----> get heroic and finish him off with classical units + an OP locust swarm + some chariots.... you should always be earlier in heroic of course since you rush him hard with ss + axemen in the beginning

lowfood: does not seem too hard, just go for the usual rain fh and of course make sure you wont get rushed.... or go ptah 2tc fh if you can secure gold

water maps: since norse is dependant on food it will be a big advantage to win water or at least screw him on water ... so either go hard cf with ptah.... even if you lose you can come back on land with the help of rain or go fh and screw him with the pet and locust swarm and then win water fast

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DoD_Jollyman
post May 13 2013, 03:53 AM
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QUOTE(miepmiep @ May 13 2013, 08:08 PM)
ra vs norse seems to be pretty easy.... Im not  such a good ra player, but I can still say :

highfood: rush with shifting sand ---> get one of his tc's ----> get a big army to secure gold ----> get heroic and finish him off with classical units + an OP locust swarm + some chariots.... you should always be earlier in heroic of course since you rush him hard with ss + axemen in the beginning

lowfood: does not seem too hard, just go for the usual rain fh and of course make sure you wont get rushed.... or go ptah 2tc fh if you can secure gold

water maps: since norse is dependant on food it will be a big advantage to win water or at least screw him on water ... so either go hard cf with ptah.... even if you lose you can come back on land with the help of rain or go fh and screw him with the pet and locust swarm and then win water fast
*



To Start off the shift sand rush is slightly luck based with Ra, due to the worst scouting int he game, Period. Set is a lot better at this. I myself prefer fast heroicing and make him make the mistake in push timing, using rain and eclipse to slow his fw attack. The Shift sand style can work out great, but others his resoucres are placed well and you can't get a good shift in, and it ends up being a waste on your resources (no empowerment).

1) Depends on gold, if back gold you can't really classic fight and he has enough hunt to recover and play you off for that map control.

2) Locust isn't that accurtate, I've had locusts where I click ont he right hand side of the gold mine but it swarms to the left and I don't kill a dwarf. Other's it swarms perfectly. But if the thor player is smart it's not that hard to split vills up.

QUOTE
you should always be earlier in heroic of course since you rush him hard with ss + axemen in the beginning

This makes no sense 11


3) Low food, either semi fh with sphinx/spears or fh go ellies and pets with 2-3 rocs (nothing he can to this except fast rag)

4) Norse has advantage on water imo, can up faster on medi plus forest fire, it's not worth sending your pharoah around to try shift some vills where you don't know where they'll be.
That being said medi comes down to micro and land transition, but gold drain is easy if norse wins water then switches land fast, eggy can't support rax units on food alone, they need a lot of hunt or water too.



You made this matchup sound so bias and simple, you said you have no experience with it, so why post about poopie you don't understand?

Final point

Ra>Norse (on most maps)

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Mirez
post May 13 2013, 04:29 AM
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The best way to use locust swarm is to place it somewhat on the side of the goldmine in which he is likely to retreat. And have your croc/chariots/spinxes attack from the other side. Forcing him to walk through the locust swarm.

Another good use (especially vs greeks) is to use it on their woodline. They can only flee one way instead of scatter in all directions.



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