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Will all of the Hindus go to Hell?
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Orion_Zorn
post Jun 3 2007, 08:30 AM
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This should be more fun than the slavery topic.

I would imagine all religions feel they are right, and the others are wrong.

So doesnt this mean that if Christians are right, none of the Muslims will get into heaven? (i know nothing of islam, do they call it heaven?)

And if Islam is right, doesnt it mean all of the Christians wont get into heaven?

And if either is right, doesnt that mean all of the Hindus wont get into heaven?

83% of India is Hindu.

So if a child is born in a small town in India, and his parents protect him or keep him away from other religious influences... how would be be sent to Hell for not accepting Christ? Is it that childs fault that his parents brought him up as a Hindu? Children very much want their parents approval, so if their parents told them Hinduism was the best way, they would likely follow. And once they have been a hindu for a long period of time, they wouldnt likely change.

And what if that child grows up in an area of India that has no other religious influences in it? What if he spends his life not ever being exposed to the other religions? Will he not get into heaven?

It doesnt seem fair, does it? Do christians feel bad for the Islamic followers that wont ever get into heaven? Is it fair when they are brought up in households that are islamic? What about the Africans of centuries ago, before Europe so kindly and peacefully spread Christianity into Africa. Is it fair that all of those african's before they were 'saved' went to hell, when they had no chance to even know who Christ was?

I dont know anything about Islam, this is mainly talking about Christianity.

Years ago i spent a lot of time discussing religion with a pastor of a local christian church. I am going by his statement that it isnt enough to be a Good person, you have to accept Christ to be allowed into heaven. If this has suddenly changed, my apologies for this topic. Maybe these days you dont need to accept Christ, and only need to be a Good person.

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sKiLLfrEE
post Jun 3 2007, 09:58 AM
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Indeed a very interesting question.

If there is some sort of heaven, I am sure that there is not a bouncer at its gate checking if everyone wanting in posesses the correct membership-card.

Just try to lead your life in a constructive and peaceful way and you´ll get your welcome drink at the entry. That´s the only rule you have to follow in your life, every other rule (like the ten commandments in the bible, rules in the tora, the koran etc) is subordinated.

You don´t need to be religious at all to get a place in heaven, if it exists. You just need to try to be a good person.


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Orion_Zorn
post Jun 3 2007, 01:59 PM
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but...unless im mistaken the major christian sects do not feel this way. i know catholics dont. Is this your idea, or are you saying that most christians feel this way and this is what the bible says?

if i believed in god, i would agree with you 100% - its the logical conclusion. it doesnt make sense that only 1 religion's followers would make it to heaven. The SAME heaven, if its true that good people all go to heaven.

if what you say is true though, then christians, islams (dont know if that is the correct way to say that), hindus, buddhists, etc etc all go to heaven.

the idea goes against a lot of the major ideas of religion, at least with catholicism. its backwards. you can commit sins and as long as you confess them, you go to heaven. be a good person but fail to accept christ... you go to hell.

This post has been edited by Orion_Zorn: Jun 3 2007, 02:01 PM

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MeRcY_NeVeR
post Jun 3 2007, 04:26 PM
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I wouldnt pay to much attention to catholics the pope is sorta changing alot of things now to make the relgion more "cool" for young people bec the No of followers has like hit rock bottom.

Anyway i will let cloud answer about Islam point of view bec he gives better answers then me. (gj mate :flowers: )

However in Islam the 1 thing that God doesnt forgive you for is not believing in him and accepting thier is only 1 god. That is the wrost thing you could ever do is not believe he exists. So Orian i wouldnt start worring about Hindu kids souls anytime soon infact if i were you i would worry about would god let atheists into heaven "if they were good people". :rolleyes:

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Orion_Zorn
post Jun 3 2007, 06:08 PM
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QUOTE
However in Islam the 1 thing that God doesnt forgive you for is not believing in him and accepting thier is only 1 god. That is the wrost thing you could ever do is not believe he exists.


Sorry but this is pretty convenient for religion. 'Disbelieve and you are guaranteed to go to hell.'

So mercy, what about people who lived before Islam came about? Did all of those people go to Hell? they didnt believe... obviously they did then? And so you are saying that all of the Hindus go to hell then? Since they dont believe in God?

QUOTE
So Orian i wouldnt start worring about Hindu kids souls anytime soon infact if i were you i would worry about would god let atheists into heaven "if they were good people".


Im not worried. When I meet him, if he says the bible or Koran (sp?) was right, and I am going to hell, ill just tell him hes a moron, and doesnt deserve the admiration he gets from humans. lol

Id like to repeat something above to anyone else too... what about the people who were born and died before Jesus walked the earth? Did they all go to hell? All of the greeks that believed in Zeus and Apollo... ALL of those people went to Hell? They didnt believe in the true god...

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MeRcY_NeVeR
post Jun 3 2007, 09:14 PM
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OMG you missed my point all togther. My point was people that dont believe in god. Not if or before. I mean like if they were told the message obvisouly he aint going to burn people that never were told would?

Anyway Orian let me ask you a question...

Where do you beleive we came from?

Please dont give me thw whole talk about apes and evoultion bec its a theroy and has still not been proven. ^^

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sKiLLfrEE
post Jun 4 2007, 03:03 AM
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QUOTE(Orion_Zorn @ Jun 3 2007, 06:59 PM)
Is this your idea, or are you saying that most christians feel this way and this is what the bible says?




This is my idea. My parents raised me as a catholic so when I was young I read the bible a lot, went to church every sunday, worked as altar server for many many years and leaded a catholic youth group.

I enjoyed doing so for a couple of time until I asked myself why it is nescessary to follow special rites to honor god, why in the liturgy I was told to be punished by god for things I wouldnt punish anyone for. How can it be that I as normal person are more able to forgive than the god who was claimed to be my "father"? How the fruit would my "father" send his kids to hell for ever?

My mother (in RL :P ) was even worse: She belonged (and still belongs) to a part of catholics who focused even more on gods role as punisher. SHe told us that the end was near, she even started to turn our cellar into a bunker, hoarded food and water.

When you experience god in such a way as kid you freak out of course. So I refused to go to church from there on. If that was god I didnt want to be his child.

I became an atheist. I hated every kind of religion and those lambs which followed their cruel sheperd blindly.

Recently I started to look on religion in a different way. I realized that rejecting the idea of god at all just beause I made bad experiences with one religion is as small minded as following a god just because you are used to do so.

Now I call myself agnostic. I don´t know if there is a god but if there is one (or more, who knows?^^) he/she/it is definately different to the images created by most christians, muslims and jews.

So in conclusion, I dont reject god but I reject the major religions. A god who only cares for those who blindly follow their religious leaders, books and rites and who sends atheists and people of other religions to hell just for their believes DOES NOT EXIST!

QUOTE
Where do you beleive we came from?

Please dont give me thw whole talk about apes and evoultion bec its a theroy and has still not been proven.


Ok then where do YOU believe we come from? Please dont include the words "god", "creator", "higher being" or any terms which are similar since their existence is not proven. Thanks and good luck.

This post has been edited by sKiLLfrEE: Jun 4 2007, 03:04 AM

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plexiq
post Jun 4 2007, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE(MeRcY_NeVeR @ Jun 4 2007, 03:14 AM)
Where do you beleive we came from?

Please dont give me thw whole talk about apes and evoultion bec its a theroy and has still not been proven. ^^
*



That one made me lol in rl ;)

So, you are asking him about his personal believes, and rule out the only truthful answer to the question. (Proven or not is irrelevant to the question you asked, he may have chosen to believe it anyway.)

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Orion_Zorn
post Jun 4 2007, 07:29 AM
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@skillfree - i can see your point. i used to be the same. im still not sure on atheist vs agnostic myself. i do disagree though, with the major religions. also your last statement cracked me up. :)

@mercy - there is a BILLION times more evidence pointing to evolution than their is pointing to creationism. you argue that it isnt 100% proven, but there is a lot of evidence. A LOT of evidence. yet on your side - there is Zero evidence. see what we mean?

And my example is that according to what i have been told - people who dont accept christ (again, im talking christianity, i know nothing of islam) are sent to hell.

So what about some kid in the middle of india? You just said he isnt going to let people burn in hell that never heard his name right? so anyone who never got exposed to islam wont go to hell? thats a LOT of people. and what constitutes 'hearing about god'. Does tv work? Ive only heard of islam on tv. Ive never met anyone that was islamic, never seen a mosque, etc. Do i go to hell?

so you are saying all of the people who lived before the koran was written didnt go to hell then? They all got into heaven? and that those that havent heard about allah wont go to hell either right? There are a LOT of chinese in the rural/mountainous areas that have no tv, no internet, no islamic influence at all.

they get into heaven? thats unfair isnt it? Everyone you know works very hard to lead a life that allah tells you, but these chinese that never heard his name get in?

you have to pick one or the other. if they dont get in, then you are saying that all people who were born and died before the koran was written all went to hell. all hindus go to hell, and anyone living in the middle of nowhere with no tv, and hasnt heard of islam... they to to hell.

OR... they do go to heaven, and you will share it with a lot of hindus, a lot of aborigine (sp?) people from africa, rural chinese...anywhere islam hasnt gotten to, and there is no tv.

and does tv count? does it say in the bible or koran that electronic transmission of the idea of islam or christianity counts? lol

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Roark
post Jun 4 2007, 07:32 AM
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I wouldn't say there's no evidence for creationism... probability and fine tuning work pretty heavily against evolution.

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MeRcY_NeVeR
post Jun 4 2007, 08:08 AM
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OK, The Ape theroy. Can some1 please tell me where the fruit we all came from then?

IMO i think God allowed it to be this way to test peoples believes it makes sense. Where each theroy is just not 100% in every1's eyes.
#

I think its a sorry existence to think i am going to end up worm food and thats me ran out of histroy.

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sKiLLfrEE
post Jun 4 2007, 08:32 AM
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Mery that´s off-topic. We already had a topic about this. Here the question is if atheists/people of different faith are going to hell.

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Orion_Zorn
post Jun 4 2007, 09:04 AM
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yes mercy please answer my questions.

do all the hindus go go hell?

do people born BC or before the Koran go to hell since they had no chance to be believers.

QUOTE(Roark @ Jun 4 2007, 12:32 PM)
I wouldn't say there's no evidence for creationism... probability and fine tuning work pretty heavily against evolution.
*



this is for another topic. id be interested (no sarcasm) to hear of real evidence supporting creationism. (not intelligent design, creationism = the earth is 5000 years old, it was flooded for 40 days and 40 nights, etc) Roark I think you are a theist or at least a deist in hiding. :)

Could someone please answer the topic question? What happens to the Hindus?!

Also Im giving credit to orion_echion for the idea about what happened to people before relgion came about, and for this one:

What happens to the animals? For people who accept evolution, but like the idea of intelligent design or are deists (are those the same?) - what happens to animals? We were once animals... did god just decide on a 'cut off' point of intellgence to Make it To Heaven? "Dolphins get in... Chimps have a few million years to go... dogs... no way, they still drool on people."

I didnt give him credit at first fearing the 'dont post for other people in vip!' but then realized this is just things he brought up in our discussions, its not like im posting a topic that he wanted.

**** Someone please answer the topic question. How can God send all the Hindus to Hell?****

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plexiq
post Jun 4 2007, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE(Roark @ Jun 4 2007, 01:32 PM)
I wouldn't say there's no evidence for creationism... probability and fine tuning work pretty heavily against evolution.
*



Arguments against some alternative Theory are not necessarily evidence for creationism.

Also, i feel estimating the raw probability of evolving life by evolution is hardly useful here. Bit hard to explain, but i ll try:

What do you think are the chances that you (or me,..) are born exactly the way we are? From the countless number of possible combinations between your mothers and your fathers genes, you were the one to materialize. I have no clue about the actual numbers, but i guess this are easily odds of worse than 1:10^20.

What does that tell us now?

Will we refuse to believe that you are a combination of your mothers and your fathers genes, just because the prior probability of seeing this particular result (you) is basically zero?

Of course, that doesnt make any sense. The sensible question to ask here is: Given that you were born the way you are, what are the chances that your "known" mother & father are actually your parents? (Alternative Hypothesis: You have at least one other person as parent.) Well, if you do a gene test, it will hopefully tell you that this probability is very close to 1.

Likewise, its pretty uninteresting to check the probability that life evolves by evolution, on a planet like the earth. The interesting question to ask is: Given that we have life on this planet, what are the chances this life evolved by evolution? (However, thats a probability we are completely unable to estimate,...yet?)

PS: Bit OT i guess ;)

This post has been edited by plexiq: Jun 4 2007, 11:32 AM

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StarGazeR
post Jun 4 2007, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE(Orion_Zorn @ Jun 3 2007, 07:30 AM)
This should be more fun than the slavery topic. 

I would imagine all religions feel they are right, and the others are wrong.

So doesnt this mean that if Christians are right, none of the Muslims will get into heaven? (i know nothing of islam, do they call it heaven?)

And if Islam is right, doesnt it mean all of the Christians wont get into heaven?

And if either is right, doesnt that mean all of the Hindus wont get into heaven?
*



Revelation 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


Matthew 7:1
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

That is good enough for me. I don't have to decide who goes to hell or not. According to Matthew the less we judge others, the less we will be judged ourselves. Sounds like a fair deal. I'll take it.

I'll probably get accused of taking the easy way out of this arguement and that this post is just a cop out. Maybe I'll even be accused of being afraid of this debate.

Well, to be honest, I am taking the easy way out. God gave me an out and I'm taking it. I don't want to decide who goes to hell. I especially don't want to say someone's soul is damned for all eternity when I am still trying to secure my own soul's future.

If it were not for these two verses, and verses like them, I would have no choice but to judge. I would have no choice but to take on this argument from a side I don't want to be on, in a position I don't want to be in.

God in his wisdom took that burden off of us, and took it on himself.



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