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Suggestions for future Balance Patches
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Jo.G
post Apr 16 2022, 06:49 AM
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QUOTE(TOAO_ChronoJJ @ Apr 16 2022, 10:23 AM)
The overall goal of the patch kind of changed several times throughout its lifetime, although it's not like it ever had any sort official, long-term gameplan. Keep in mind the voobly balance patch was not the first attempt at a fan patch; there was another attempt on Voobly a short time before, but ultimately that fanpatch sputtered out for a variety of reasons, perhaps one of the main reasons being that it tried to do too much, and the community just wasn't ready for that (nor did the community agree with the changes; just too much drama).

So the voobly balance patch started small, with just a few specific points of emphasis. But after the initial versions, the community and the team began to realize the potential the patch had to improve the game.

Once the voobly patch gained traction, the changelogs became bigger and bigger, with the intent of improving more aspects of the game faster. This resulted in some bloated changelogs, and in hindsight, some of the middle patches created more problems than they fixed. Once we realized things were getting a little out of hand, the patch's focus narrowed to again work on the worst imbalances, while also slowly cutting out past changes that weren't good. We still tried to fit in the occasional content change (like something new, not really for a pure balance issue), but overall the last few versions of the patch became smaller and simpler.

I think most would agree that the last few patch versions were the best, and the resulting gamestate is pretty good, all things considered. Given the struggles behind the scenes (we were a bunch of amateurs), the patch turned out really well.

I always wanted to create some sort of content patch after balance was basically finalized, and by that I mean a patch that focused on under-utilized techs/minor gods/etc, potentially completely revamping some things. However the issue with introducing new content is that it is purely subjective. A good idea to one person might seem really dumb to another, and then you start turning Age of Mythology into Age of JJ or Age of XXXX instead, and outside of JJ or XXXX, no one else wants to play that.

But for me, new maps is a better way to liven up the game, which is why I implemented map rotations for a while. But in the end it was a bit too much drama.

I don't know if there will be new patches; I organized the process for years, up until the last update, which was when I turned it over to others. But then that last version had some heavy issues getting organized/finalized (maybe more work than what everyone thought it'd be), so I kind of jumped in at the end to push it along. But the last version turned out really good.

Patching is alot harder than people think, and I don't mean the actual files, although that can be hard too (RebelsRising and Ippert did some phenomenal work with the files). But actually managing a patch, figuring out changes, getting the team to agree, and then releasing a product that the community would accept (because this is an at-will patch); each version required a ton of time and effort.
*



I agree here, the most important thing to do is to avoid dumb changes like 3 pharaohs for osiris on EE or something like that,, small and well-thought out changes are the best.

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Oskar
post May 17 2022, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE(3antozz @ Apr 13 2022, 06:34 PM)
i think patch good, just need nerf odin a bit or nerf skadi
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+1

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Mor_legendary
post May 18 2022, 05:03 AM
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Nerf:
Possy mythic hero =Polynekes bonus attack vs buildings(right now its way to strong for a fruiting hero. No hero in the game can make even half of damage he does right now to buuldings.

Little Nerf to:
Walls price(except for atty and you know the reason)=there is way too much abuse with this and it benefits odin possy the most who spam walls in all the map. Or even use frost and just wall arround so army of enemy cant escape. This way frost becomes a lighting storm.

I mean look at matrius gameplay. He even wall the enemy base lol go look him vs kimo ra xd.

Nerf to:frost giant as you should make them more expensive imo.
If they worth 250 gold make them 300 for example.
Thats how i see it

This post has been edited by Mor_legendary: May 18 2022, 05:08 AM

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TheRapl
post May 19 2022, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE(Mor_legendary @ May 18 2022, 06:03 AM)
Nerf:
Possy mythic hero =Polynekes bonus attack vs buildings(right now its way to strong for a fruiting hero. No hero in the game can make even half of damage he does right now to buuldings.

Little Nerf to:
Walls price(except for atty and you know the reason)=there is way too much abuse with this and it benefits odin possy the most who spam walls in all the map. Or even use frost and just wall arround so army of enemy cant escape. This way frost becomes a lighting storm.

I mean look at matrius gameplay. He even wall the enemy base lol go look him vs kimo ra xd.

Nerf to:frost giant as you should make them more expensive imo.
If they worth 250 gold make them 300 for example.
Thats how i see it
*



You can't deal with Polyphemus? 11
Only thing I would like to be changed from walls is a range that stops you from doing triple and more kimo wall layers.
I am ok with nerfing Skadi or ragnarok a bit but in exchange to get a ranged hero for the anubites and roc.

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bucklamenace
post May 19 2022, 08:56 AM
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Nerf Anubites damage to walls ?

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3antozz
post May 20 2022, 07:21 AM
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something about atty is really disturbing, fact that you can't raid them, i really think there should be a change to make them raidable.....

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AiC_Stab
post May 20 2022, 07:43 AM
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lol

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bucklamenace
post Jun 5 2022, 08:55 AM
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What about no more x0.5 against heroes for MU ? Heroes and especially greek ones are just so overpowered to MU, there is a reason greek meta is age of heroes into age of heliopolis, most boring ever.

Maybe not all MU need that buff but classical ones probably do for sure, it's just so boring watching odysseus or a pharoh killing 7 trolls while taking 32 hp damage.

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Lord Antares
post Jun 5 2022, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE(bucklamenace @ Jun 5 2022, 03:55 PM)
What about no more x0.5 against heroes for MU ? Heroes and especially greek ones are just so overpowered to MU, there is a reason greek meta is age of heroes into age of heliopolis, most boring ever.

Maybe not all MU need that buff but classical ones probably do for sure, it's just so boring watching odysseus or a pharoh killing 7 trolls while taking 32 hp damage.
*



Loki would be giga op.

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IamGroot
post Jun 6 2022, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE(bucklamenace @ Jun 5 2022, 02:55 PM)
What about no more x0.5 against heroes for MU ? Heroes and especially greek ones are just so overpowered to MU, there is a reason greek meta is age of heroes into age of heliopolis, most boring ever.

Maybe not all MU need that buff but classical ones probably do for sure, it's just so boring watching odysseus or a pharoh killing 7 trolls while taking 32 hp damage.
*


I absolutely agree. Myth units with melee attack have 0.5X and with ranged attack have 0.25X multiplier against heroes. 0.8X and 0.4X multipliers would be enough.

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TOAO_ChronoJJ
post Jun 18 2022, 08:50 PM
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QUOTE(bucklamenace @ Jun 5 2022, 01:55 PM)
What about no more x0.5 against heroes for MU ? Heroes and especially greek ones are just so overpowered to MU, there is a reason greek meta is age of heroes into age of heliopolis, most boring ever.

Maybe not all MU need that buff but classical ones probably do for sure, it's just so boring watching odysseus or a pharoh killing 7 trolls while taking 32 hp damage.
*



This was actually how it was (for the most part) in original AoM. AoM to AoT had a ton of undocumented balance changes. Overall myth units were made cheaper (and of course the free one at age up), but the counter was that most of the myths received a much greater penalty vs heroes. I guess ES decided through playtesting or whatever that without the damage reduction, myth units were too strong.

Vanilla Anc+Ecl is crazy strong, and much of that is because the minions mow down heroes.

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i r n00b
post Jun 19 2022, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE(TOAO_ChronoJJ @ Jun 19 2022, 03:50 AM)
QUOTE(bucklamenace @ Jun 5 2022, 01:55 PM)
What about no more x0.5 against heroes for MU ? Heroes and especially greek ones are just so overpowered to MU, there is a reason greek meta is age of heroes into age of heliopolis, most boring ever.

Maybe not all MU need that buff but classical ones probably do for sure, it's just so boring watching odysseus or a pharoh killing 7 trolls while taking 32 hp damage.
*



This was actually how it was (for the most part) in original AoM. AoM to AoT had a ton of undocumented balance changes. Overall myth units were made cheaper (and of course the free one at age up), but the counter was that most of the myths received a much greater penalty vs heroes. I guess ES decided through playtesting or whatever that without the damage reduction, myth units were too strong.

Vanilla Anc+Ecl is crazy strong, and much of that is because the minions mow down heroes.
*



Not really, they were strong because Eclipse is stronger. They reached 15 hack in vanilla instead of aot's 13. Nobody is actually fighting a/e

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TOAO_ChronoJJ
post Jun 20 2022, 12:07 PM
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Eclipse (+50%) is the same, it was the minion that was nerfed.

10 attack in Vanilla: Eclipse buffs to 15
8.5 attack in Titans (seems to be a nerf in Titans 1.02*): to the 12.75 with eclipse.
also 50% penalty vs heroes (introduced in Titans)

So in my humble opinion, of the two changes, the more impactful one is that the attack against heroes went from 15 (or 12.75 depending on how you want to do the comparison) to 6.375. But let each person decide for himself.

*: 1.02 patch note says their attack was lowered by 2, but that doesn't make sense unless their attack was first buffed to 10.5 with titan release (or the patch note is wrong and it was actually -1.5)

This post has been edited by TOAO_ChronoJJ: Jun 20 2022, 12:08 PM

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Oskar
post Jun 25 2022, 11:23 PM
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remove horrible desert map :angry:



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