Welcome Guest ( Log In  ·  Register)



3 Pages  1 2 3 > 
Reply to this topicStart Poll
Ladder Reset and Rotating Map, Arctic Craters In; Painted Desert Out
[ Standard ] · Linear+
TOAO_ChronoJJ
post Apr 9 2020, 11:17 PM
Post #1


Lieutenant-General
Group Icon

Group: Staff Alumni
Posts: 3,527
AOM Replays: 206
Submissions: None
Joined: 30-October 03

From: ?
Member No.: 549






April 9th, 2020:

The rating ladders have been reset for 1x1 Supremacy, Team Game Supremacy, and Deathmatch. For the most part, little has changed with the actual rating system. The primary change is that the decay floor was raised up to 1800, which is what it used to be a few years back. We hope this results in less points being lost to the ever-hungry decay monster, resulting in more points overall in the ladder. Otherwise, the rating system remains the same, with the same decay rules for top 20 and the same algorithm. We wanted to amend the algorithm to make it a bit less harsh when playing down, but unfortunately that could not yet be accomplished. We hope to achieve that down the road, hopefully for the next ladder season (potentially 2021).

Moving forward, the intention is to have a fresh ladder at the start of every year or maybe every two. In the future, we would like to have some sort of special end-of-season ladder event, but what exactly that would be, we have no idea (suggestions welcome). Additionally, if there were to be any future patches, those would coincide with the start of the new ladder season (1st of the year). We hope that a more structured ladder season will make the ladder a bit more fresh. An additional hope is that this structure simplifies everything moving forward, for however long Voobly continues to be the center of AoT competitive play.

Rotating Maps: An additional part of this ladder reset, which will likely continue for some time, is the introduction of a rotating map into the standard rated mapset. This rotating map will be switched out for a new map at the end of each month. The maps will be standard maps, not anything crazy like Vinlandsaga or Nomad. Examples of potential maps are the recent ones used in the Bill Gregg Open Tournament, past patch maps that weren’t permanently added in, or some of the original AoM/TT maps that were never in the rated pool, but could be with a few minor alterations. If a new map gets overwhelming support, there is the potential that it be permanently entered in the map pool.

The reason for this is to try to keep this very old game fresh, without having to push out endless balance patches that may or may not change anything. Maps add a great amount of variability, and can be rotated with ease, without any recorded game issues.

Rotating Map Schedule:

Rotating April Map - Arctic Craters
Rotating May Map - Highland
Note: Arctic Craters will receive a full 30 days, so Arctic Craters and Highland will overlap for about a week.

Painted Desert will be treated as a rotating map. So as of now, Painted Desert is rotated out (with likely future re-appearances in the rotation). This is due to a variety of reasons, but mainly because the map is somewhat static, and the map seems to get the least positive reviews of all land maps.

The entire timeline of maps is not determined, although we will try to stay at least one month ahead. Keep in mind that maps will likely be slightly altered prior to the insertion into the map pool. So when Highland comes in, it won’t be an exact replica of Highland of old - there will be some edits (looking at the Bears on the coast), but the maps will still look and play like they used to.

Punishment for Refusing to Play: Players who force save/exits due to not wanting to play a new map will be subject to a rating penalty, or possibly even temporary bans if the behavior continues. This behavior has occurred in the past, and it’s very frustrating when trying to introduce new maps and gauge whether or not they are balanced. Players should not feel they have the right to avoid a map just because A) they don’t like it, and B) it’s new. Having said that, I do understand that in the past, a few somewhat-rough maps were in the map pool for too long, resulting in some (not all) of the save/exit behavior. This is one of the reasons for the 1-month time period. Everyone should be able to tolerate a 1/13 map over the span of 30 days.


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TOAO_ChronoJJ
post Apr 9 2020, 11:18 PM
Post #2


Lieutenant-General
Group Icon

Group: Staff Alumni
Posts: 3,527
AOM Replays: 206
Submissions: None
Joined: 30-October 03

From: ?
Member No.: 549






Arctic Craters is the current month of April Map.

It's a snow map (of course), and the primary feature is that each town center spawns at the bottom of a valley, or crater. The initial town center spawns with two small gold mines, although the gold are slightly further away from the TC than in other maps. Each player also starts with a smallish pack of hunt. Trees are a bit tough to access, because the forests do not spawn in the craters. Nothing spawns in the second and third town center basins; there will be no gold/forests/hunt next to them. Otherwise, hunt across the map is fairly similar to Tundra, with moderate to heavy amounts of Caribou and Boar.

1x1 Map
Attached Image

2x2 Map
Attached Image

3x3 Map
Attached Image

This post has been edited by TOAO_ChronoJJ: Apr 11 2020, 08:35 PM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mor_legendary
post Apr 10 2020, 03:05 AM
Post #3


Major-General
Group Icon

Group: AoT Expert
Posts: 2,703
AOM Replays: 265
Submissions: None
Joined: 23-September 15

Member No.: 119,966






All is fine but please do something againts the strategy of magic kimo and gss that goes top 1 or top 2 and then leave the game and just play 1 game vs 1700 before the decay..
Also please stop with water maps i hate them

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mirez
post Apr 10 2020, 04:25 AM
Post #4


Grand Hustle Pimp
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 16,282
AOM Replays: 98
Submissions: None
Joined: 12-October 06

From: The Netherlands
Member No.: 46,031

Gamertag: IamMirezNL





Is the original Highland coming back or is there some FP version with more balanced fish & bears?

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DoD_IamShelty
post Apr 10 2020, 08:16 AM
Post #5


Brigadier
Group Icon

Group: AoT Expert
Posts: 2,154
AOM Replays: 380
Submissions: None
Joined: 25-July 10

Member No.: 104,880






Agree with mor I dont want another ladder where #1 #2 and #3 don't play eachother so they just sit at 1900 (looking at gss and kimo)

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PureDM_IamRich
post Apr 10 2020, 08:36 AM
Post #6


Field-Marshal
Group Icon

Group: Content Staff
Posts: 7,121
AOM Replays: 356
Submissions: None
Joined: 5-May 06

Member No.: 37,771






Yeh it's kind of pathetic to get #1 and #2 and then play each other unrated whilst you're beating scrubs for 1 point all day.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tom_R1ddle
post Apr 10 2020, 08:58 AM
Post #7


Brigadier
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2,193
AOM Replays: 172
Submissions: None
Joined: 16-June 10

Member No.: 104,227






do something againts 1st vill rush vs attys in highland 11

This post has been edited by Tom_R1ddle: Apr 10 2020, 08:58 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Lad_Azkeel_
post Apr 10 2020, 03:05 PM
Post #8


Staff Sergeant
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 248
AOM Replays: 88
Submissions: None
Joined: 7-May 15

Member No.: 119,206






The poinsit will not be solved by resetting the ladder again and again, this has already been done 3 times and the problem remains the same, to know what the poinsit solution is we must understand the "top" players who do that.

First of all, they don't play for fun, they play for ego, and it is the fact that when they see their nickname on top 1,2,3 etc, they don't want to lose it from there "that status they have", and they They start to think, what do I gain by playing another top player? There is a lot of risk of losing that ranking that cost me hours, days playing and if I win it will not matter because I will have to do it every week or days so it does not make sense because I will return to that circle.

Now, the solution that Chrono proposes about monitoring each account, in the first place is not feasible, there are many accounts and games and I do not think that I have the time to monitor 20 accounts one by one every day or even reset accounts every week, in short it is inefficient.

I propose that there be a kind of "reward" for top players that encourages them to play with each other.

HOW?

Simple, to make downloading the games between top players this cost a membership that half would be for the player and another for voobly, the few high-level games go up to 200 downloads in fact the game where I spank Joe reached 150 so That there is a market for it, if magic can get 200 subscriptions for a stream, do you think that the same cannot be done with voobly?

Btw the new map has to be fixed, it's another urano / loki map not to mention tg.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
BoIt
post Apr 10 2020, 06:13 PM
Post #9


Field-Marshal
Group Icon

Group: Content Staff
Posts: 6,581
AOM Replays: 192
Submissions: None
Joined: 13-January 09

From: Australia
Member No.: 72,411






I've been trying to figure out a way to insentivise top players to play each other but beyond throwing money at show matches it's just not possible.

I suggested a top player ladder with prize for first but it'd have to be done manually and I think the players would be too lazy to do it.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
PureDM_IamRich
post Apr 10 2020, 07:51 PM
Post #10


Field-Marshal
Group Icon

Group: Content Staff
Posts: 7,121
AOM Replays: 356
Submissions: None
Joined: 5-May 06

Member No.: 37,771






If GSS and Magic wont play tourney why would they bother with this?

It's all pure ego, even if it hurts the game.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
KoN_Meathook
post Apr 11 2020, 03:55 AM
Post #11


General
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 4,186
AOM Replays: 200
Submissions: None
Joined: 29-August 04

From: Ministry of Silly Walks
Member No.: 9,465






Ladder resets, with the tools 'we' seem to have at our disposal, seems to be the most efficient tool for encouraging a competitive ladder right now. Of course, without quick search available it will all be a gimmick of what it should have been, but a gimmick is all Voobly has been able to offer since the beginning. Personally, I wish this part of the community left Voobly for good, it's a casual platform at best and it's strange that it hosts the best players in the game - but that's my opinion. EE is garbage too, but a little less garbage than Voobly. And EE has quick search.

Ladder resets should be more frequent than the extremely modest suggestion of once per year. Three or four ladder resets per year sounds more reasonable.

I like the addition of maps and of course the fact that a few souls are trying their best to put together an optimal scene with the poopiety landscape we have today. All though the punishment for saving is weird and makes what is a positive addition of a new feature appear more as a forced ego-trip for whoever wants to enforce something 'fresh' into this old game 11.

This post has been edited by KoN_Meathook: Apr 11 2020, 03:56 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TOAO_ChronoJJ
post Apr 11 2020, 07:45 AM
Post #12


Lieutenant-General
Group Icon

Group: Staff Alumni
Posts: 3,527
AOM Replays: 206
Submissions: None
Joined: 30-October 03

From: ?
Member No.: 549






What is the point of introducing new maps into a standardized mapset if players can just avoid any map they want? In what other competitive aspect of online gaming would this be acceptable (if you can consider rated games as competitive play)? Many players don't like specific original maps, but nobody saves on them because it's not accepted behavior. Why should a new map be any different? The only reason should be if it's completely awful, in which case if it becomes obvious a map is broken prior to the month end, it can be removed early. Similarly, if it becomes apparent that players don't like the rotating map function, then it can be removed down the road.

So yes, there are reasons other than an ego-trip. Which I guess that too would be a reason if I had a completely fragile ego, but I don't. Though I suppose just saying that doesn't mean anything (bringing to mind arguments with the wife when we said "oh I'm not mad," which was certainly not the true). So instead look at who I've been/what I've done in the past years of being in/helping this community and come to your own conclusion. But I guess if you're bringing up the ego-trip as a possible reason then you've probably already made your conclusion, in which case I guess there's not anything I can do to indicate otherwise. Conspiracy theorists will be conspiracy theorists.

This post has been edited by TOAO_ChronoJJ: Apr 11 2020, 08:55 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
KoN_Meathook
post Apr 11 2020, 09:31 AM
Post #13


General
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 4,186
AOM Replays: 200
Submissions: None
Joined: 29-August 04

From: Ministry of Silly Walks
Member No.: 9,465






QUOTE(TOAO_ChronoJJ @ Apr 11 2020, 12:45 PM)
What is the point of introducing new maps into a standardized mapset if players can just avoid any map they want? In what other competitive aspect of online gaming would this be acceptable (if you can consider rated games as competitive play)? Many players don't like specific original maps, but nobody saves on them because it's not accepted behavior. Why should a new map be any different? The only reason should be if it's completely awful, in which case if it becomes obvious a map is broken prior to the month end, it can be removed early. Similarly, if it becomes apparent that players don't like the rotating map function, then it can be removed down the road.

So yes, there are reasons other than an ego-trip. Which I guess that too would be a reason if I had a completely fragile ego, but I don't. Though I suppose just saying that doesn't mean anything (bringing to mind arguments with the wife when we said "oh I'm not mad," which was certainly not the true). So instead look at who I've been/what I've done in the past years of being in/helping this community and come to your own conclusion. But I guess if you're bringing up the ego-trip as a possible reason then you've probably already made your conclusion, in which case I guess there's not anything I can do to indicate otherwise. Conspiracy theorists will be conspiracy theorists.
*



That's pretty defensive. Perhaps I caught you at a bad time? Don't quite understand why you are calling me a conspiracy theorist, it feels weird to get a reaction like this. It wasn't about you, and I regret making you feel that it was.

It also makes me regret using that specific word as the more important point on the agenda, more frequent ladder resets, seemed to be completely ignored on account of defending integrity. It wasn't a personal attack, so there's no need to take it to court - at least not on my account. I don't even know the process behind new ideas and implementation - who is in charge or whatever, I just know that they happen, that you're the messenger and I'm happy that somebody is doing something.

Not because my opinion here is extremely important, but here's what I think about what you suggested with regards to player behavior: The idea that players will save new maps no matter what is based on a fantasy. My experience seems to differ alot from yours and I find that curious. I played the new maps quite a lot when they were introduced. The groups of people I played with, friends and randoms, didn't display the attitude portrayed above. Sure, there were individuals who seemed to dislike the new maps almost out of principle, and sometimes we saved to be nice towards them. For my own sake, which means around 100 games of AoT, I never saw it as an issue and played the new maps in the rotation without any problems or regular objections from other players. It's 1) unnecessary to punish people who save games because the issue doesn't really exist, and 2) doing so gives the impression of 'this game needs to change, and I'll be damned if I don't make it happen'.

Ego trip was perhaps a silly word to use, but a silly word for a silly rule doesn't seem too unfair to me :P

This post has been edited by KoN_Meathook: Apr 11 2020, 09:43 AM

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TOAO_ChronoJJ
post Apr 11 2020, 10:45 AM
Post #14


Lieutenant-General
Group Icon

Group: Staff Alumni
Posts: 3,527
AOM Replays: 206
Submissions: None
Joined: 30-October 03

From: ?
Member No.: 549






The issue I have is that over and over people undermine the efforts of the patch/ladder updates/etc by saying there is bias/power issues/etc, which doesn't bother me on a personal level, but it does negatively affect the overall reaction of the efforts (so in that sense, it bothers me). So in this case it may be a bit nit-picky, but it's frustrating to see the commentary over and over, especially here for what is intended to be a completely positive addition to the community. You can't deny that there is an underlying negative atmosphere in the AoT Voobly community, and I feel like some of that is nurtured by the handful of people who frequently make negative conspiracy comments in regards to the patch/ladder efforts. Now, I don't mean I am against criticism, because nothing is perfect and everything can be better, but alleging that there is some sort of bias or power-issue for the changes is simply inaccurate and harmful to the overall purpose.

I'm the one working to introduce this entire process, so yes any sorts of comments about inherent bias/ego issues for the map-rotation would apply to me. Now I don't want to make it seem like this concept is all me, since it involved opinions of others and of course using maps designed by others (many thanks to Hagrit and Flame who were the source of many of the BGO maps). But in the end, the approval (if you could call it that) and implementation is mostly me, and the rule change specifically was me based on what I perceived as very negative behavior in regards to past efforts to improve the community. In which case I guess you didn't know, but regardless of who was behind the changes, the concept of the rule being all about ego would seem rather outlandish to me.

This entire rotating map pool would not work if people felt they could avoid any new map, hence the rule was made in an attempt to prevent the behavior before it even began. Yes, maybe the rule seems a bit overkill, and really I hope that it is, as I have little interest in doing moderation these days. But my experience is a bit different than yours, in that I have seen (in the past, not recently) the minority dictating that new maps not get played. Now again, if it gets to the point where the majority don't want the rotating map pool, it will be removed, but I don't want it removed prematurely by the minority who refuse to play on new maps. Hence the rule which might seem heavy-handed, but it's there in an attempt to prevent the map-rotation concept from being roadblocked before it can even begin.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
KoN_Meathook
post Apr 11 2020, 11:25 AM
Post #15


General
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 4,186
AOM Replays: 200
Submissions: None
Joined: 29-August 04

From: Ministry of Silly Walks
Member No.: 9,465






Well, feel free to express your opinion about more frequent ladder resets.



User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

3 Pages  1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicTopic Options
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
 




Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 05:03 AM
About Us  ·   Advertising  ·   Contact Us  ·   Terms of Use  ·   Privacy Policy