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Contraceptives for 11 Year Olds, jesus fruiting christ
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Hazard
post Oct 18 2007, 11:30 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/10/18/middl...n.ap/index.html


"PORTLAND, Maine (AP) -- After an outbreak of pregnancies among middle school girls, education officials in this city have decided to allow a school health center to make birth control pills available to girls as young as 11."

"Portland's three middle schools reported 17 pregnancies during the last four years, not counting miscarriages or terminated pregnancies that weren't reported to the school nurse."



Ho-lee-poopie. If this isn't a sign of the apocalypse, I don't know what is. I mean, its fruiting insane. Birth control pills, for ELEVEN YEAR OLDS? What the hell is going on in Portland that they aren't teaching their kids not to start fruiting atleast until they can drive? I mean, high school pregnancies are bad enough, but when 6th graders are getting knocked up, we have some serious fruiting problems. Child services needs to send a battalion of investigators into these homes and find out what the flying fruit these parents are doing.


Seriously, this is fruiting insane.

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Orion_Zorn
post Oct 19 2007, 03:59 PM
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maybe if they didnt put hormones in cows that then transfers to the milk we drink, that then makes girls hit puberty at 8, this wouldnt even be an issue. ;)

This post has been edited by Orion_Zorn: Oct 19 2007, 04:00 PM

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Viper
post Oct 19 2007, 11:06 PM
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Girls are supposed to be starting to hit puberty when 9, so perhaps we should start handing out contraceptives then.

(joking)

I think it's more of an indictment on their upbringing. They're either 1. fundamentalist Christians who refuse to have an abortion, or 2. from a low socio-economic background.

I refuse to back up my wide-ranging statements. Have fun.

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BadToThe_Bone
post Oct 20 2007, 11:45 AM
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Some school official hands my 12 year old daughter some form of contraceptive, I'll bust their asses.... I'm NOT kidding. That is freaking ridiculous.

I talk to my daughter all the time about this crap... She KNOWS not to even think about having sex yet... I told her to wait until she is 30 or so... that's a GREAT age to start :D

But, if she does (which some kids will no matter what their upbringing is), she had best let us know immediately... But after we know? Holy hell, that would be a hard next step to figure out what to do.

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Nemesis
post Oct 20 2007, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(Orion_Zorn @ Oct 19 2007, 08:59 PM)
maybe if they didnt put hormones in cows that then transfers to the milk we drink, that then makes girls hit puberty at 8, this wouldnt even be an issue. ;)
*



I agree, I drink organic milk and eat organic meat when I'm at home, can't at school (lol midnight snacks topic) but it gets expensive.

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Orion_Zorn
post Oct 20 2007, 08:59 PM
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i dont drink organic milk, but i do get milk that says there were no hormones used on the cows..

as for the contraception thing: why exactly do people dislike the idea of giving kids contraception? preaching abstinence doesnt work at all, isnt it better to at least give kids the ability to be safe? I mean think about Hazard's statement:

QUOTE
Birth control pills, for ELEVEN YEAR OLDS?


Shouldnt this really be 'pregnancy, in MIDDLE SCHOOLS?'

The issue isnt the contraception, its that middle school girls are getting pregnant. Why is this? My point is just that its not like the school decided 11 year olds need contraception, they are reacting to a spike in pregnancies. what should they do?

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LembasBread
post Oct 21 2007, 03:59 AM
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Here's how I look at the issue. Should sex be made illegal in teenage and preteenage years? I think most rational people are going to say no. It's a right they have for better or for worse. Why then should the perephenalia needed for safe sex be made unavailable. I don't necessarily agree with high schools passing out these things because that just isn't the task those instiutions are meant for.

What frightens me ever moreso than these statistics is how these statistics are used. We have both politicians and people in the media exploiting this data for political gain claiming it is a "values-problem" or a "social crisis" or some kind of government failure. We all know that it isn't that simple. Everyone turning evangelical wouldn't fix the problem any more than passing out condoms on every street corner. It's a multi-faceted issue that, I believe, stems from a lack of accountability in youth paired with social acceptance. Ultimately, parents can only take care of their own kids and it is up to parents to fix this problem, not schools nor the government.

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StarGazeR
post Oct 21 2007, 01:22 PM
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I think it is the greatest idea ever. You can't stop kids from having sex, so why not help them do it without having to deal with those annoying consequences.

They need to expand this program to include other things that kids are going to do no matter what. Kids are going to drink alcohol, I mean come on. So they should provide aspirin, tylenol, and Bloody Marys at school to help keep the hangover from hindering the learning experience. There should probably be some financial aid available for kids whose parents can't afford the amount or quality of alcohol that other kids have available to sneak from their parents.

Perhaps there should even be a special room in schools where middle schoolers can experience sex or alcohol or both in a safe environment with a school nurse present to prevent alcohol poisoning or internal injuries to the 11 year olds who might have underestimated the weiner of their 16 year old boyfriend.

If anyone should be doing this sort of thing, it should definately be the government and public schools. I know I can count on them to have done the research to know that there is no emotional or mental consequences that can come from desensitizing children to sex and I know they have made sure that the dangerous side effects that birth control pills can cause to adult women don't apply when dealing with children.

Even if some little girl ends up beating the 99% effectiveness of birth control pills and gets pregnant, then keeps taking them, doesn't know she is pregant because she is not quite a menstral expert, ends up having a deformed baby, or having to have an abortion that leaves her unable to ever have children as an adult, I know that no parent would sue the school system, I mean come on. No one sues anyone in America. That would be silly.


What the fvck is wrong with some (or maybe just one) of you idiots?


It is a good idea to put yourself in the other persons shoes and try to see both sides of an issue when discussing it, but I find lately that some people's thinking is so backwards and utterly stupid that I can't see from their perspective. This is one of those times.

If you want your kids raised by the state, why not just hand them over at birth?

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larky
post Oct 21 2007, 01:59 PM
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Stargazer seriously what is up with you. I read this thread and it's fine until...

QUOTE
What the fvck is wrong with some (or maybe just one) of you idiots?


...you come in and start flaming people for no reason making absolutely no contribution to anything.

This post has been edited by Larkyboof: Oct 21 2007, 02:00 PM

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StarGazeR
post Oct 21 2007, 05:33 PM
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QUOTE(Larkyboof @ Oct 21 2007, 12:59 PM)
Stargazer seriously what is up with you. I read this thread and it's fine until...

QUOTE
What the fvck is wrong with some (or maybe just one) of you idiots?


...you come in and start flaming people for no reason making absolutely no contribution to anything.
*



Did you read the rest of my post? Who did I flame exactly? Did I name anyone.

If I flamed anyone I flamed everyone who thinks giving birth control pills to eleven year old girls is a good idea. I am proud of flaming them because anyone that stupid needs to be told they are stupid, maybe not so much by me but by a psychiatrist or therapist or something but damn they need some sort of reality intervention, professional or otherwise.

Polite or not, idiots exist and I am not going to pretend they don't for the sake of niceness.

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Orion_Zorn
post Oct 21 2007, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE(LembasBread @ Oct 21 2007, 08:59 AM)
Here's how I look at the issue. Should sex be made illegal in teenage and preteenage years? I think most rational people are going to say no. It's a right they have for better or for worse. Why then should the perephenalia needed for safe sex be made unavailable. I don't necessarily agree with high schools passing out these things because that just isn't the task those instiutions are meant for.

What frightens me ever moreso than these statistics is how these statistics are used. We have both politicians and people in the media exploiting this data for political gain claiming it is a "values-problem" or a "social crisis" or some kind of government failure. We all know that it isn't that simple. Everyone turning evangelical wouldn't fix the problem any more than passing out condoms on every street corner. It's a multi-faceted issue that, I believe, stems from a lack of accountability in youth paired with social acceptance. Ultimately, parents can only take care of their own kids and it is up to parents to fix this problem, not schools nor the government.
*



Lembas this is a really good reply, well said. I think the issue is that everyone feels that people should be allowed to have responsibility for their own lives, UNLESS it affects other people. So people obviously make murder illegal, because it hurts other people.

the problem is, imo, that everyone has a different idea of what 'hurts other people'

Some people say that we should legalize all drugs. 'its their life, who cares if they want to ruin it?' Others say 'what about when my house gets robbed because half the country are heroin addicts and will do anything for a hit?'

As i said in another topic, in a small way, almost everything we do affects others. Drive a big SUV? Thanks for driving up the price of gas for me buddy! see what i mean?

So your statment makes sense that the government shouldnt be involved, and I think we should have as little government intervention as possible. But what happens when teen pregnancies rise dramatically, and many of those girls end up being single moms AND needing government assistance to exist? Now MY tax dollars are being wasted because other people didn't raise their kids to control themselves.

And really, CAN you raise kids to control themselves? As i pointed out, girls are hitting puberty earlier and earlier, the hormones are raging, for some girls, for years by the time they get to their 11th birthday.

ideally, education is the key. I dont really think giving contraception to young girls is the best answer, but its better than telling them 'abstinence is the way'.

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Hazard
post Oct 21 2007, 10:19 PM
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You're not supposed to evade the wordfilter Paul =p

Quick sidestep here, where were these 11 year old whores when I was in middle school? =(

Anyhoo, both sides made some good points. I think the problem I see with this here is they left it up to the kids judgement. If they had sent parents a newsletter in the mail saying that if they wanted their children to do so that contraceptives could be made available. Instead what they're doing is letting the kids make the choice. Which is dumb. They may be physically maturing much faster, but the mental side is still the same. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think an 11 year old girl is equipped to make a calm, reasonable decision about it, and I know that no pansyweight 11 year old boy is going to turn down some 'tang.


Also, what about social diseases? Are they receiving sex ed along with this pills? If condoms were being passed out, it would at least be lowering the chance for one of these kids to pick up an std, but by handing them the pill, its like saying 'Go for it!'. Now granted if they only passed out rubbers there'd be no guarantee that the kids would use them, for lack of feeling (do they even make rubbers for 11 year olds? Tiny Trojans? Preteen Lifestyles?), but it would at least set up the guidelines for safety.


I think its just generally a bad idea. Let the parents know whats going on, and let the parents decide if their little Britney Spears get the pill or a chastity belt. Because really, what responsibility do the schools have to be doing this in the first place?

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LembasBread
post Oct 21 2007, 10:35 PM
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Ideally, sex ed would be taught at home and not by public schools. It just isn't a school subject and it doesn't belong in that kind of enviroment. Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world. We cannot count on all parents to raise their kids to become part of a functional society. Therefore, we entrust the schools with certain responsibilities that would otherwise go to the parents.

However, contrary to what StarGazer seems to think, this education serves only to supplement parental education, not replace it. Sadly, not all students get the education they need on this and have to rely solely on the schools.

Stargazer, you complain about how we can't let public schools teach these things and yet, if we didn't, how would our society look? You always seem to point towards a lack of morality and yet you are seeking to cut another source from which it is derived? What we ultimately come to is our current compromise, but a compromise comes in varying degrees.

Providing contraceptives isn't something a school should do, but at the same time, it shouldn't be illegal for a kid to go to a drug store and pick them up himself. The problem lies with a lack of accountability. By purchasing a contraceptive, a person is being responsible. It's the equivalent of having a designated driver when you go to a bar with your buddies as opposed to getting into a drunk driving accident after leaving the bar and expecting someone to fork over the cash for your bills.

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Nemesis
post Oct 21 2007, 11:19 PM
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I don't think there is a problem with having sex ed in school, a lot of parents can't talk to their kids about things like that.

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larky
post Oct 22 2007, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE(StarGazeR @ Oct 21 2007, 11:33 PM)
Did you read the rest of my post? Who did I flame exactly? Did I name anyone.

If I flamed anyone I flamed everyone who thinks giving birth control pills to eleven year old girls is a good idea. I am proud of flaming them because anyone that stupid needs to be told they are stupid, maybe not so much by me but by a psychiatrist or therapist or something but damn they need some sort of reality intervention, professional or otherwise.

Polite or not, idiots exist and I am not going to pretend they don't for the sake of niceness.
*

So first you imply you didn't flame anyone then say it's ok to flame them because it's your opinion that they're an idiot? Make your mind up... i don't have an opinion on this but i was just flicking through this thread and couldn't help but notice your inability to discuss without throwing insults and sarcasm around as usual

Didn't you say in that thread a while back that you will reply civilly to everything from then on?



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