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Question for rushers, I need some tips from pros
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LetmewinPlz
post May 11 2022, 06:10 PM
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Hello everyone. I do quite like to krush as I have an offensive oriented playstyle, and I generally am ahead in the first 5-6 mins. I generally get 2 or 3 villager kills or at least push them of hunt. But then my opponent research watch towers and it seems in all maps there is no need to leave the base and they can get full army and heroic, and I generally lose to their heroic age god power, whether it is flaming weapons, frost or curse.

I have several theories after watching my replays. Maybe I should adjust my army composition for the heroic push sooner? But does that mean sacking my turma army? And also because I am krushing my food eco is piss poor and I can't support murmillo without idle time. Or maybe I should just grab a tc to solidify my advantage? Or should I sit under tower fire and still raid and don't mind? I think I am rarely able to identify when I have a solid advantage and take the game. Or maybe rush altogether is weak and is the wrong strategy from the beginning.

I would like to hear your tips. Thank you for helping.

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bucklamenace
post May 12 2022, 03:29 AM
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Turma have high pierce armor so they can sit under tower fire.

If you an advantage, ie you killed 3 vills, your opponent bought towers (300 rsc) and you have map control but your army can't push more (your turmas won't kill a TC) you need to stop make army and go heroic, which you should be able to hit faster has you have more eco, didn't spend 300 rsc in towers and can hunt safely while your opponent can't (it's hard to raid atty and especially kronos because you can timeshift manors).

So take your advantage, stop building army, go heroic, and wait with your army on ur opponent second gold mine.

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MasterOfFreedom
post May 12 2022, 05:25 AM
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Lookup Action's games. He got high elo on Krush alone. SexOnTehBeach I think was the name. Otherwise, look up Action games as Kronos.

I don't know the current meta, but I can offer you knowledge on rushing in general. During a Krush, you are trading early game aggression for economic pressure. If you do not get a solid impact on their eco, you simply lose because you sacrificed your eco for pressure and cannot catch up. You need to make the krush worth it by impacting their eco by any means and then using Atty's ability for easy eco to catch up and overpower. Its all a trade off.

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Mor_legendary
post May 12 2022, 04:30 PM
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I played some kronos recently. from my experince i futured out that you should have your buildings in your "next push area" what i mean?
you up 4:00 for example scout his hunt obv you can push his hunt vill with your orcales.
try to shift your temple to the second push point. it could be gold\big wood line he use\even forward temple that cant be defended.
this way you can push him from 2 zones quicker. the next thing is building milatry buildings ofc and shift one of them while with other make 1 unit so you can defend base in case he sends mythic unit there. if he dont just send it forward.


so you pushed his hunt and fight for his gold but again not all in dont secuicide. you just presure wisely. dont insist to push his gold in all cost cause you can win anyway you dont nesecery must gold block him.
(advice: make sure he dont back to any hunt,you can scout with 1 mini promothean for that)

you said he up tower. so i recomend to destroy the tower before it being up xD.

however even in scnerio where your push dont go that well wich can happen if you face experinced player.
you just shift your buildings abit back for example to your forward hunt or to his forward hunt. and you should play for it.
remeber to keep up in economy. take handaxe pickaxe. and the most important adapt your units make to his. while try make small raids but its mostly for scout his units.
for example you rush odin. then retreat and have map control but less.
you cant just make turma murmilos vs his 30 ulfsarks cause it will end bad.
you soppsued to make 1 cherio per 5 ulfsark and murmilos its the best combo for vs solo ulfs.


so again you dont nessecery need push his gold make damage is always nice if you can. but you soppsued to control the hunt in the map and when you have hunt while your opponent dont you will always have eco adventage.
if you dont have something to do with army just kill all his hunt arround his base 11 so he will never get it. especily vs norse hunt is the key vs norse. never boom vs them in 1x1.
in your scnerio where he make max army turtle untill heroic.
try to just take basic economy ups once he do that. make army because you need the map control but if he goes heroic just go heroic as well.
there you can even shift your buildings majorly to your second gold mine and take tc for 130 pop spam heroic units ect. all dephends situation but this is the path i think.
and also you can win with krush in 6 mins if you do it good.

I won matrius odin like that few times
I won uly ora like that
just push them off hunt gold and gg 11


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LetmewinPlz
post May 13 2022, 07:08 PM
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Thanks a lot for the advice guys. I looked some Action Kronos games, he has very good micro, he takes battles I wouldn't take, I should learn better to win those close fights.

However I think the meta changed a bit in the sense that people now are not afraid of using villagers and don't seem to resign that easily. The thing with Kronos they prepare their base even harder than vs Oranos. Even if I somehow gold starve them, they will keep sneaking gold mines, and sometimes even go as far as my second or third gold mine 11. And think overall building placement are better than before and with watch towers their bases are hard to raid. Then again turmas should be able to support arrow fire, I think it is still a good idea to raid and sack them progressively for better units.

Mor, I really also like your advice, as I watch a lot of your live casts and watched a couple of your Kronos games. I agree that the 4 min hunting dogs is the way to go, and I find it good on maps like frozen wastes or painted desert. On marsh and tundra however, sometimes there is about 2000 food in your starting base and Odin even has great hunt so you can even triple that, I don't think they even need to leave their base. On these maps I tend to struggle the most.

I find that unlike Oranos, heroic age doesn't give you too much. Hyperion is good vs greeks and okay vs Odin and useless vs Loki. Rhiea is only good for those opponents who you krushed but won't resign, you kinda intimidate them with the behemoth but are useless when they are turtled in their base. I find I only advance for the Arcus and destroyer but they aren't any power spike themselves. Perhaps I am just bad at identifying advantages who knows.

Anyways I don't struggle vs players much lower than me in ratings, I feel I need a whole lot more matches to compete with the best. Perhaps I should stop the tgs and play more 1v1.

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Hisp_drako
post May 23 2022, 01:18 PM
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No matter what all that words say, if you want to rush search another game. I was kronos player, had difficulties with it but kept trying, then looked at the last patch and you wont see me again here. This staff denies short game dinamics.

Goodbye for another year.

This post has been edited by Hisp_drako: May 23 2022, 01:31 PM

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MasterOfFreedom
post May 23 2022, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE(Hisp_drako @ May 23 2022, 02:18 PM)
No matter what all that words say, if you want to rush search another game. I was kronos  player, had difficulties with it but kept trying, then looked at the last patch and you wont see me again here. This staff denies short game dinamics.

Goodbye for another year.
*



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Mor_legendary
post May 23 2022, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE(Hisp_drako @ May 23 2022, 01:18 PM)
No matter what all that words say, if you want to rush search another game. I was kronos  player, had difficulties with it but kept trying, then looked at the last patch and you wont see me again here. This staff denies short game dinamics.

Goodbye for another year.
*


A special phsychology anylist from me would say this:
1.darko feels very disapointed from himself performs at the game.
2.he noticed that the patch made it even harder for him so he decided to blame the patch for 100% of his performs.
3.he talk to himself alot about that he loves the game but he feels betrayed and he got enough from it. He felt too nearvos cause of this game.
4.conviced himself why the patch is bad and eventhough he has voice that say darko comeback play aot his responsibilty voice of his mind tells him enough is enough need search anothrt game move on.
5. He post his self monoluge wich been repeated in his mind and somtimes shared with his friends here in order to' help" someone he spots as poteinial to be same case as him and inorder to prevent his hurt of an9yher human he shares this monolgue here.
6.there is no need to jugde,to make laugh to flame him back.
7. Darko will look at this topic again just to see if someone agrees woth him or if he has sucsused help someone from the danger
He will see master of freedome react and might flame cause he see him as person who has responsibilty of patch so he will get angry and flame. He will see my comment and probably ignore since what i say makes 0 sense and no connected objective realistic to his comment apart of crap other way of normal looking.
8.end hope you enjoy

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Hisp_drako
post May 23 2022, 05:32 PM
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I wish it was only that.

Its obviously frustrating the structural situation of the game, and its more when it seems that everything is perfect here while number of people decrease and no changes are made.

Long time ago I dont care of my perform of the game, no prob with that.

The patch is the end of lots of patches which ideas are wrong and in my opinion made the game worse.

Non rush, no water maps, only semi rush middle and long game games, No viability for short intense game, and good defensive and ofensive short game skils being on the table. That games nearly dissapeard in the 4.0, more in the last 5-0 patch.

It makes me sad to see a such self-indulgent staff. DIMISIONS are an option. If you dont make the numers get bigger of the community if you dont make forum changes (others communities as spanish are not represented and never was here, always we had to make our own forums) or if you dont want to work in own platform iniciative of the staff, as Age Of Empires 2 had with voobly because you only want to handle a misfortune then better dont stay, I understand that making some money in your twichs is more important than making this game work, but common, its obvious that here are problems who no one want to handle and no one want to let space for someone to handle them.

I write a monologue because last time I tried to explain which are the causes of the structural problems. I didnt have a constructive feedback, the staff doesnt want to fix nothing, they are happy with 60-70 players at the same time. So every year I come back to see if they have gone and the game I love can try new solutions. The game (original) is in fact really good, but now no future awaiting.

Im open to more comments Mor, happy to see you as expert, and happy you try to get this community that is dying (not because of you) active, but your more alone than a vegan in a familiar barbacue.

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Hisp_drako
post May 23 2022, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE(MasterOfFreedom @ May 23 2022, 09:36 PM)
QUOTE(Hisp_drako @ May 23 2022, 02:18 PM)
No matter what all that words say, if you want to rush search another game. I was kronos  player, had difficulties with it but kept trying, then looked at the last patch and you wont see me again here. This staff denies short game dinamics.

Goodbye for another year.
*



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Thanks Obama! :boxed:
*




I dont play voobly since two years, so please. :rolleyes:


Do not deny your successes.

This post has been edited by Hisp_drako: May 23 2022, 05:44 PM

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MasterOfFreedom
post May 23 2022, 07:51 PM
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QUOTE(Hisp_drako @ May 23 2022, 06:40 PM)
QUOTE(MasterOfFreedom @ May 23 2022, 09:36 PM)
QUOTE(Hisp_drako @ May 23 2022, 02:18 PM)
No matter what all that words say, if you want to rush search another game. I was kronos  player, had difficulties with it but kept trying, then looked at the last patch and you wont see me again here. This staff denies short game dinamics.

Goodbye for another year.
*



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Thanks Obama! :boxed:
*




I dont play voobly since two years, so please. :rolleyes:


Do not deny your successes.
*



You are right, I will not deny that VBP is a success.

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Hisp_drako
post May 23 2022, 08:33 PM
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Obviously this is all about VBP.

This post has been edited by Hisp_drako: May 23 2022, 08:34 PM



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