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exicus vs LitanyofFury007, Orks vs Space Marines on Siwal Frontier
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litanyoffury007
post Oct 8 2010, 05:32 AM
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Provided by litanyoffury007


(IMG:./images/maps/dow2/siwal_frontier.jpg)
Team 1
(IMG:./images/races/dow2/orks.jpg) exicus
Orks
Warboss
     
 
Team 2
(IMG:./images/races/dow2/space_marines.jpg) LitanyofFury007
Space Marines
Force Commander
     
 
Game Details:
Game Version: DOW II 2.4.0 Victory Condition: Victory Point Control
Game Type: Rated Match Length: Average (10-30 minutes)
Played: 08 Oct 10 Winner:
Map: Siwal Frontier (2) File Size (zipped): 128.1KB
Saved Name: DSII_803_exicus_v_Litanyof
Poster Comments:


me (ts 21) Vs exicus (ts23)

i would really appreciate any advice on this replay

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Attached File DOWSII_803_exicus_vs_LitanyofFury007_Siwal_Frontie.zip
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Ph3lan
post Oct 8 2010, 09:44 AM
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Some advice (considering how bad I am at this game atm, you should probably take this with a grain of salt):

-If you go for a fast ASM, build only one node and a gen, two gens are overkill (you got 85 power by the time you reached 500 req) you can have your asm out much sooner that way.

-you don't want to engage an ork head on in early T1 with only 1 scout 1 tac and an FC, the ork will outnumber you heavily, try to stall until you get your asm out (if that is what you want to build).

-try to go t2 as soon as you have the resources for it (you had mroe than 180 power and 500 req by the time you started t2)

-don't try to genbash with your tacs alone (especially without flamers and when you know his whole army is around the corner)

-don't jump on squads with your asm if you don't know what is wayting behind those seemingly perfect targets (his whole army in certain cases)

-don't engage the enemy if you can't win (like in the situation where you lost your asm)

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litanyoffury007
post Oct 8 2010, 10:08 PM
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Thanks For the Advice Ph3lan
i'll be sure to keep that in mind next time :)

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=][=nquisitor ]-[alo
post Oct 8 2010, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE(Ph3lan @ Oct 8 2010, 02:44 PM)

-you don't want to engage an ork head on in early T1 with only 1 scout 1 tac and an FC, the ork will outnumber you heavily, try to stall until you get your asm out  (if that is what you want to build).

*



just in the name of friendly debating

i disagree with this statement, early on SM actually has a slight advantage over orks if you attack his squads (who in theory are spread out capping) you can burn them down fast enough to force him off the field early leaving you open to uncap his power node, also its worth mentioning that Tacs will beat sluggas. until sluggas have burnas then its another story so not attacking him early on will actually diminish that starting strength that tac squads have.

also it can be a good idea to send 1 tac squad after a gen if you set the situation up first. for example you could attack his army with your commander and some supporting units (i havent watched the replay yet) which i believes includes ASM, and while thats happening your tacs could wipe out his gen farm. just make sure to watch your distraction force if you loose more then a few models it wont be worth it (killing his gen farm will put you ahead 300 req if you only get his gens and 425 if you get the node) so as long as you only loose 1 or 2 asm from the fight you in theory come ahead in the end

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Ph3lan
post Oct 9 2010, 01:30 AM
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"i disagree with this statement, early on SM actually has a slight advantage over orks if you attack his squads (who in theory are spread out capping) you can burn them down fast enough to force him off the field early leaving you open to uncap his power node, also its worth mentioning that Tacs will beat sluggas. until sluggas have burnas then its another story so not attacking him early on will actually diminish that starting strength that tac squads have."

you can force an ork off (1 slugga 2 big shootas and a wb) with 1 scout, 1 tac and an FC???? Keep in mind that litany was trying to bring out a fast asm, so he had no upgrades at all and the two armies met head on all the ork squads vs all the Sm squads.


"also it can be a good idea to send 1 tac squad after a gen if you set the situation up first. for example you could attack his army with your commander and some supporting units (i havent watched the replay yet) which i believes includes ASM, and while thats happening your tacs could wipe out his gen farm. just make sure to watch your distraction force if you loose more then a few models it wont be worth it (killing his gen farm will put you ahead 300 req if you only get his gens and 425 if you get the node) so as long as you only loose 1 or 2 asm from the fight you in theory come ahead in the end"

in the replay litany sent in his tacs (without flamer) to kill the gens after his opponent mass retrated, and all his squads were only a couple meters away from the power node litany tried to attack, while litany's other forces were capping.
But even if you set up a distraction it has to be an extremely long one if you want to destroy three gens with vanila tacs.

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=][=nquisitor ]-[alo
post Oct 9 2010, 03:24 AM
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QUOTE(Ph3lan @ Oct 9 2010, 06:30 AM)
"i disagree with this statement, early on SM actually has a slight advantage over orks if you attack his squads (who in theory are spread out capping) you can burn them down fast enough to force him off the field early leaving you open to uncap his power node, also its worth mentioning that Tacs will beat sluggas. until sluggas have burnas then its another story so not attacking him early on will actually diminish that starting strength that tac squads have."

you can force an ork off (1 slugga 2 big shootas  and a wb) with 1 scout, 1 tac and an FC???? Keep in mind that litany was trying to bring out a fast asm, so he had no upgrades at all and the two armies met head on all the ork squads vs all the Sm squads.


"also it can be a good idea to send 1 tac squad after a gen if you set the situation up first. for example you could attack his army with your commander and some supporting units (i havent watched the replay yet) which i believes includes ASM, and while thats happening your tacs could wipe out his gen farm. just make sure to watch your distraction force if you loose more then a few models it wont be worth it (killing his gen farm will put you ahead 300 req if you only get his gens and 425 if you get the node) so as long as you only loose 1 or 2 asm from the fight you in theory come ahead in the end"

in the replay litany sent in his tacs (without flamer) to kill the gens after his opponent mass retrated, and all his squads were only a couple meters away from the power node litany tried to attack, while litany's other forces were capping.
But even if you set up a distraction it has to be an extremely long one if you want to destroy three gens with vanila tacs.
*



right so YES you can win that early battle, if you can push forwards fast enough you will probably find one or 2 squads out on its own attacking this hard and forcing it off the field can help even the field, tacs melee on 1 shoota and FC on another scouts helping where needed can be a really good tactic against vanilla orks, once orks start getting upgrades they will be alot harder to deal with in the long run, keeping in mind that an upgraded slugga squad will beat an ASM squad.

and i think there might have been a little bit of misunderstanding on my second point the diversion doesent need to be that long for those tacs to deal with most or all of that power node (and yes i agree they would need a flamer or it would never work) by time the other army moves over to start attacking you, you can safely withdraw your tacs to safety

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Dalr0n
post Oct 10 2010, 08:41 AM
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I'm no SM expert and I personally hate fighting orks on Siwal frontier due to to the fact the map is so damn small from the base to the center field xD but whatever, In my limited experience with SM's I would say don't be scared to go heavy in T1 against orks, yes you'll probably go T2 later and he will probably build a deff dread to push you off, but if you setup your units in T1 get field domination then go T2 simple upgrades is all you require to those T1 units to even it up.

I would personally would of gone with 1 scout 1 tac 2 dev's and an Assault marine squad in T1, Flamer only needed if you wanna Gen bash him which might work to your advantage long game but as this is a power heavy build upgrades might wanna only come in T2 to make up for the heavy T1.

You will need to be very careful in T2 if he builds stikk bombers, but depending on how good your micro is he shouldn't be in much of a position to build them if you cause heavy casualties early. Only thing that will mess you up is Stormboyz in T1 but this is easily countered by setting up your second Devastator behind your first to force a jump and simply move ur first out of the way of approaching units, then shotgun blasting them if they use their second jump to get on ur second dev's. Slugga's with a nob will also cause problems with your dev's with their swamp em ability. A librarian with Tome of time works very well with Dev squads so you might wanna experiment with that a little. This will require nice micro honestly its not easy but the results can be amazing done right.

Once the libby is built you can go T3 and get your Terminators Always support them with more then just a Force commander or Assault marines, Warboss ork will murder Terminators in close combat if he uses his globals correctly. The dev's will also make it hard for Nobs late game trick them into popping frenzy kite them with devs into the second with your libby supporting the dev's.

Any expert feel free to point out things I said that wouldn't work or are just stupid. What I suggest will take practice but I suspect you build the same order every game against every hero and you might wanna experiment with other builds to counter your enemy correctly.

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litanyoffury007
post Oct 10 2010, 12:01 PM
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My Thanks to everyone for their advice
it's really appreciated :)

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=][=nquisitor ]-[alo
post Oct 10 2010, 10:40 PM
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no problem, i was kinda hoping that if we started talking about it a little bit it might help you more, i hope that was the result you walked away with.



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