NyanRacingCat |
Nov 25 2020, 04:43 AM
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#1
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Colonel Group: Members Posts: 1,619 AOM Replays: 221 Submissions: None Joined: 9-August 08 Member No.: 68,492 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NisCkxU544c...thelonelyisland By looking at the Champions League pick and result, currently Egyptians, Zeus and Ora are the meta. Gaia and Thor are the weakest. Patch changes should nerf meta Gods while helping the weaker. Also, need to look at certain Gods that are too strong in some maps but not the others, and counter pick. Some of the changes are directly from EE that works well, some are other people's ideas. A lot of non-meta main and minor gods have technologies that are way too expensive or not useful. Especially Poseidon and Hades with tons of food heavy technologies you barely seen them researched. It is impossible to make everyone happy, as people trends to think their God nerfed too much/not buffed enough. But I will try ... At least I think they make sense, or maybe too much buff for Loki :P Welcome to discussion. General Map Calm Shores (from Merge mode) replaces Painted Desert Rotate Blue lagoon out > Now we have a more balance amount of high hunt, low hunt and water map, rather then more than 50% high hunt. Anatolia to spawn with 50% chance for 1 or 2 goldmines Crenelations - Bonus from +100% to +50%, except War Elephant Villages - 20% damage vs TC >EE has a buff for Atlantean with a standard TC stat, however, I don’t think a lot of people will like it. Monkey: 45 -> 25 hit points Norse TC train Skrealing instead of Ulfsark Ulfsark: Training speed 9->11 sec Raiding Cavalry: Training speed 18->16 sec Throwing Axeman: Training speed 16->15 sec >Reduce Odin’s ulf rush vs Atty, but stronger for all other situation. Should help Thor the most. Increased Dock building speed from 0.75 -> 0.88 (EE changes) Hill Fort: Build 10% faster Portable Ram: Increased health from 215 -> 225 hp, and Hack armor from 5% → 10% (EE changes) Odin Hunters gather bonus from 15% to 10%, wood gather bonus to 5% >Odin is weaker on water amount all three since almost none of his bonus works, balancing his abilities between high hunt and other maps Thor Dwarven Mine: Archaic Age 500 -> 800 gold >allows Thor to save an ox cart for quicker classical time Line upgrade also 10% cheaper, upgrade training 10% quicker Forseti Hall of Thanes: Wood cost 300 -> 250 Heimdall Einherjar: Speed 3->3.2 Freyja Thundering Hooves: Food cost 300->200 Skadi Frost Giant: Pierce armor 70%->65% Njord Mountain Giant: Speed 3.2->3.5 Kraken: 800->700 Hit points Walking Woods: Hack damage 6->7 Ring Giver: Gold costs 400->300 Research time 60->40 sec Tyr Fenris Wolf: Base speed 4-> 4.3 Brevery: Food cost 400 -> 300 favor cost 30-> 15 Berserkergang: Gold cost 300 -> 250 favor cost 30 -> 15 Jormund Elver: Population 3 -> 4 Baldr Hero of Ragnarok: Hack Armor: 30% -> 25% >Stronger vs Egy/Greek as Axeman/Hypaspist do lesser damage, weaker vs Atty/Norse Egyptians Dock price increase to 80 gold from 3rd dock. >Same setting as China’s garden, not sure if possible on VB. Lesser impact on medit, but reduce op multiple docks on Anatolia and Midgard Fishing boat building dock speed reduce 10% Pharaoh: 100 -> 115 hit points (DM patch changes) Villages: Repair speed on TC -20% >Still fastest with empower, only slightly slower than Greek without as they are faster than Greek without empowering right now Migdol Stronghold: 2600 -> 2500 hit points Chariot Archer: -10% damage vs Raiding Cavalry (Same as Tox and Arcus) Axeman: x4->3.5 vs Norse Heroes (As TA and Cheiroballista both have reduced bonus) Mercenary Cavalry: -5% Hack and Pierce Armor Pharaoh: Reduced the bonus construction speed when empowering Wonders from +75% → +30% faster (EE changes) Son of Osiris: Reduced the bonus construction speed when empowering Wonders from +75% → +30% faster. (EE changes) Isis Pharaoh: Return from dead in 60sec (instead of 90sec), +2 Attack ranges Technology cheaper: Also affects favor cost Ra Camels: 10% Speed bonus doesn't not apply Skin of the Rhino: food costs 50->80 Set Feral: Also +10% animal moving speed, Favor costs 10 -> 8 Path Shifting Sands: Reduce Maximum HP of shiftable Enemy units from 600 -> 450 hit points Sekhmet Scarab: Hack damage 6->10 Crush damage 12->70 Bonus vs buildings x5 removed >Fix the problem of no bonus damage vs building under construction, and patch block by unfinished building Slings of the Sun: +75% vs all infantry units (EE 2.7 changes, VB is 30% or 50%) Hathor Roc: Capacity to 5, Speed 4.5 -> 4.2 Nephthys Leviathan: 1080->950 hit point Thoth Meteor: +30 hack damage, 32 to 25 radius for better accuracy Phoenix: 30 Hack & Crush damage to 40 Hack & Crush damage, 4 speed and 25 favor (EE changes) Greek Trireme: Speed 6 -> 5.5 Dock: Wood cost 100 -> 115 Hypaspist: Bonus vs Norse Heroes from x3.75 to x3.3 (As TA and CB both does reduced bonus) Zeus Odysseus: 320-> 300 hit points (EE changes) Infantry Bonus on building: 100% -> 75% (-12.5% total damage), ->50% vs Norse building (-25% total damage) Poseidon Hippolyta : 240 -> 280 hit points, attack animation 2sec->1.75sec (EE changes) Lord of Horses: 150-> 80 food 10 -> 5 Favor Hetairoi: +20 hit points Hades Chiron: 14 -> 16 range (EE changes) Achilles: 350 ->200 food, 0 -> 150 wood (EE changes) Ares Phobos' Spear of Panic and Deimos' Sword of Dread: -100 food +50 gold costs Apollo Sun Ray: -10 favors cost Temple of Healing: -10 favors cost Dionysus Thracian Horses: -100 food and 5 favors cost Aphrodite Golden Apples: Can be researched at the temple, -200 food costs Roar of Orthus: -100 food, +50 gold costs Hera Lighting Strom: Reduce the attack radius to true radius Artemis Earthquake: -10% damage on buildings Atlantean Fire ship: Tracking to 5.5 (It cannot hit moving fishing ship right now) Cheiroballista: Attack bonuses vs Norse heroes from: x1.5->x2, Bonus from RC x2->x1.5 >Kronos and Gaia heavily counter by Loki as they don’t have unit speed to match Loki, does make them better to defend vs Loki as Loki also receives multiple buffs. Lampades' special attack and the Chaos god power no longer affects the Pegasus, Hippocampus, or Raven (EE changes) Oranos Shockwave: -1 radios > Someone tells me what is the current radios? Adjusting shockwave should fix many problems of Ora Sky Passage: Limit 10 -> 4 1000->850 hitpoints Safe Passage: Also available at the Temple (EE changes) Gaia 2 options 1. Gaia able to train Kastor from TC, same stat as EE's Immortal, but no range attack. 2. Oracle (Hero) -50% cost in classical >Allow Gaia not to lose hunt due to free classical myth units at the start and got snowball from there. Hero cost: -30%, -1 favor cost >Not sure why cheaper hero even removed for Gaia in 3.0 Kronos Deconstruction: +1 charge +60sec CD Time shift: -10% time Leto Automaton: Cost reduces 1 favor, +20 hit points (+1 favor and -10 hit points than EE) Spider Lair: Target Priest Oceanus Bite of the Shark: -100 food +50 gold +30% vs Mus Weightless Mace: -100 Food +50 Wood -10 favor cost Caladria: healing rate 15 ->20/s Carnivora(Land): Pierce Armor 20% -> 40% Hyperion Chaos: +1 min CD Heroic Renewal: Able to research from temple Theia Lemurian Descendant: Able to research from temple Rheia Behemoth: Hack damage 6->10 Crush damage 12->70 Bonus vs buildings x5 removed (Same as Scarab) Traitor: No longer damages the target (DM patch changes) Rheia's Gift: Reduces favor cost 25->50%. (EE changes) Atlas Eyes of Atlas: Myth units +9 los to all units +7 los >must be a troll when Theia's technology’s give +9 to all human and cheaper.. Argus: 550 hit points, and its special attack has a range of 3. (EE changes) Io Guardian: Costs 300 gold and 15 favor and decreases special attack recharge time by 40%. (EE changes) Helios Man O' War: Hack damage 25->30 Mirror Tower: wood cost 300->250 gold cost 150->100 favor 5->3 pierce damage 20->25, and benefits from weapon upgrades at the Armory (EE changes) Hekate Asper Blood: Range increased from 7 to 10, blood damage increased from 50 to 60 (DM patch changes) This post has been edited by NyanRacingCat: Nov 25 2020, 04:48 AM |
OdinOwnsYeAll |
Nov 25 2020, 05:27 AM
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#2
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Private Group: Members Posts: 25 AOM Replays: 0 Submissions: None Joined: 12-October 20 Member No.: 125,036 |
Nice try but buff Trolls speed make them competitive also nerf attys gather rate by a litttle (and maybe give them +1 vill?) so a bad fight will hurt their eco instead of making army non stop and rc need some hp bonus since they die to vills so easy |
SnL_NoMercy |
Nov 25 2020, 09:08 AM
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#3
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Lieutenant Group: AoM Expert Posts: 633 AOM Replays: 167 Submissions: None Joined: 8-September 14 Member No.: 117,582 Gamertag: (Snl)NoMercy |
Not all gods are designed to be able to contest hunt at advance time. Gaia is one of them, I don't wanna see Gaia making 5 oracles from temple to defend a rush from norse or greek just weird. Also inconsistent buffs that don't apply to all of that civ are confusing cant give oracle hero price reduction to just 1 civ or kastor imagine being a new player and not reading through patch stuff and you find oracles hero cheaper as gaia but not kronos/ora. Same as your changes to isis. Pharaoh: Return from dead in 60sec (instead of 90sec), +2 Attack ranges Technology cheaper: Also affects favor cost To help gaia there has to be some complete change to atty civ as atm they are too dependant on valor for heroes. EE I personally think has done a better job with atty balance then voobly which is just age of Whoranos. Some of the ideas you got are very good otherwise like the scarab change except we would have to consider what a change like that would do its ability to counter munits and titans now it has a Huge crush damage. May have to just give it buff vs ghost buildings if possible. Tyr bit overbuffed cant have "decent" mythic techs costing 15 favour. I like alot of your greek/eggy changes, the 3rd tier greek heroes never get made until mythic most games due to their food cost. |
Mor_legendary |
Nov 25 2020, 03:27 PM
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#4
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Major-General Group: AoT Expert Posts: 2,705 AOM Replays: 265 Submissions: None Joined: 23-September 15 Member No.: 119,966 |
I liked the gaia hero from tc idea, eventhough its abit make her similiar to greek at some term. I think pharoh is already a strong unit, maybe for isis is good to buff because she has weak clasical fight but what about seth that alrdy has wild animals and presits and ss? now make his phraoh even stronger? the camles nerf of ra can do the work of make ra worse god than now. i can see it. what about the titan though? it was 60 sec to reach, now its 80. i think it should be changed to 70. |
NyanRacingCat |
Nov 25 2020, 04:34 PM
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#5
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Colonel Group: Members Posts: 1,619 AOM Replays: 221 Submissions: None Joined: 9-August 08 Member No.: 68,492 |
Just explain some of my ideas: 1. Troll buff - I thought about it, but with reduced the cost of Hall of Thanes cost, and with RC and TA train quicker, and all other buffs may be too much for Loki to have another buff. 2. Tyr - Fenrir Wolf is the weakest free Mythic Age Myth unit you get. Therefore I want to set cheaper technology for Tyr to cover it. Someone proposed Tyr with 2 free Fenrir Wolf before, but double-free mus is not something people like. 3. Scarab and Behemoth - Right, got to change their bonus vs Myth Units to x1 or x0.5 too. I believe they mentioned not possible to fix bonus vs construction building. Developers had this setting so 1 upgrade siege ship will not able to deny any dock being built. 4. Isis Pharah - Actually Ra and Set Pharah both have their special. Ra's empower is stronger, Set can summon animals. In Egyptian mythology, Isis restored Osiris's life, as a reference the bonus makes sense. The Pharaoh's hitpoint buff is questionable which I agree. 5. Gaia's hero - Personally I prefer Kastor from TC. The whole story of AOT Campaign is about him becoming the hero under Gaia. The EE Gaia is op vs some God with Leto and stronger TC, but on the other hand still hard countered by some, due to hard for her to handle the early pressure of Heroes + free mu. 6. Titan Gate - I am not a big fan of going Titan so... :lol: This post has been edited by NyanRacingCat: Nov 25 2020, 04:41 PM |
AiC_Stab |
Nov 27 2020, 01:36 AM
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#6
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Staff Sergeant Group: Members Posts: 268 AOM Replays: 0 Submissions: None Joined: 7-July 16 Member No.: 121,401 |
QUOTE(NyanRacingCat @ Nov 25 2020, 03:13 PM) General Crenelations - Bonus from +100% to +50%, except War Elephant Norse TC train Skrealing instead of Ulfsark Ulfsark: Training speed 9->11 sec Raiding Cavalry: Training speed 18->16 sec Throwing Axeman: Training speed 16->15 sec >Reduce Odin’s ulf rush vs Atty, but stronger for all other situation. Should help Thor the most. Increased Dock building speed from 0.75 -> 0.88 (EE changes) Hill Fort: Build 10% faster Portable Ram: Increased health from 215 -> 225 hp, and Hack armor from 5% → 10% (EE changes) Odin Hunters gather bonus from 15% to 10%, wood gather bonus to 5% >Odin is weaker on water amount all three since almost none of his bonus works, balancing his abilities between high hunt and other maps Thor Dwarven Mine: Archaic Age 500 -> 800 gold >allows Thor to save an ox cart for quicker classical time Line upgrade also 10% cheaper, upgrade training 10% quicker Forseti Hall of Thanes: Wood cost 300 -> 250 Freyja Thundering Hooves: Food cost 300->200 Njord Mountain Giant: Speed 3.2->3.5 Walking Woods: Hack damage 6->7 Ring Giver: Gold costs 400->300 Research time 60->40 sec Tyr Fenris Wolf: Base speed 4-> 4.3 Brevery: Food cost 400 -> 300 favor cost 30-> 15 Berserkergang: Gold cost 300 -> 250 favor cost 30 -> 15 Jormund Elver: Population 3 -> 4 Baldr Hero of Ragnarok: Hack Armor: 30% -> 25% >Stronger vs Egy/Greek as Axeman/Hypaspist do lesser damage, weaker vs Atty/Norse Egyptians Villages: Repair speed on TC -20% >Still fastest with empower, only slightly slower than Greek without as they are faster than Greek without empowering right now Migdol Stronghold: 2600 -> 2500 hit points Chariot Archer: -10% damage vs Raiding Cavalry (Same as Tox and Arcus) Axeman: x4->3.5 vs Norse Heroes (As TA and Cheiroballista both have reduced bonus) Mercenary Cavalry: -5% Hack and Pierce Armor Path Shifting Sands: Reduce Maximum HP of shiftable Enemy units from 600 -> 450 hit points Greek Hypaspist: Bonus vs Norse Heroes from x3.75 to x3.3 (As TA and CB both does reduced bonus) Zeus Odysseus: 320-> 300 hit points (EE changes) Infantry Bonus on building: 100% -> 75% (-12.5% total damage), ->50% vs Norse building (-25% total damage) Don't you think there are too many direct / indirect buffs to norse and it will make them stronger than they already are in tg? Also what is the reasoning behind the random buffs, like tharacian horse, isis pharoh. And why is gaia buffed so much? Classical + heroic + mythic buffs + kastor + cheaper hero??? Gaia already having op eco combined with always being able to secure hunt and having buffs at every stage is weird I remember that shifting sands was nerfed the same way you are suggesting rn and it led to very 1 dimensional play and was reverted. Edit : One last thing, the goal of the patch is not to make every matchup 50-50. Gaia is designed in such a way it is weak to myth units, you don't want to change a gods design. Its like asking riot team to buff nasus early game because it hard loses to darius early game. This post has been edited by AiC_Stab: Nov 27 2020, 01:39 AM |
NyanRacingCat |
Nov 27 2020, 03:38 AM
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#7
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Colonel Group: Members Posts: 1,619 AOM Replays: 221 Submissions: None Joined: 9-August 08 Member No.: 68,492 |
Tbh, I don't think it is possible to balance both 1v1 and TG with the same patch. In 1v1 early 2tc boom is very strong but in TG early 2tc could lead to your teammate got destroyed vs a team work well together. Also unit speed advantage much important in TG. However, just did I said, there maybe too much buff for Loki. The cheaper heroes are something in VB before (was removed for no reason, she was barely picked back then too), and still on EE. 3 valor from Ora and Kro equal to the discount value of 30 (9/30%) cheaper heroes.. and early valor able to rush/counter rush too. Make Gaia handicap in some match up without access to it. One thing to counter those buff is to change the 30% cheap eco upgrade back to 20%, which is something motivate booming gameplay. I don't think Isis in a great place now outside OP on Anatolia and Midgard. With other Egy nerfs she should have some buff in return. A lot of Greek technologies way too expensive on food they don't get researched often until very late game. (Or the minor god not even picked). Maybe some small nerf on Greek Mythic Age to counter those changes when Egy's late-game nerfed too. This post has been edited by NyanRacingCat: Nov 27 2020, 03:40 AM |
I_Go_Heimdall |
Nov 27 2020, 02:44 PM
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#8
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Sergeant Group: Members Posts: 161 AOM Replays: 3 Submissions: None Joined: 1-May 17 Member No.: 122,460 |
These changes will make Norse even more OP in tg games. Cant see much balanced out here. |
Jo.G |
Nov 28 2020, 03:56 PM
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#9
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Staff Sergeant Group: Members Posts: 229 AOM Replays: 0 Submissions: None Joined: 9-July 19 Member No.: 124,234 |
Imho only anatolia 100% 2 goldmines in base (OP vs atty) and maybe Roc vs norse are game breaking at the moment, but I understand that something should be done to nerf ra's camels. I noticed that camels have been buffed on voobly actually, their training time has been reduced, can someone explain if is there any particular reason behind this choice? |
NyanRacingCat |
Nov 30 2020, 02:55 PM
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#10
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Colonel Group: Members Posts: 1,619 AOM Replays: 221 Submissions: None Joined: 9-August 08 Member No.: 68,492 |
When people claim Norse too strong on TG, but if you look at later stages of RTSL, Odin and Thor both didn't play very often. Loki is strong but the natural of how important speed is in TG. I don't like the idea of they are too good at TG, and shouldn't be good at 1v1. As I said you can't balance both with the same patch. Also, they have been fruited by Zeus and Egy for years already... A lot of people want to remove free roc for Norse better against Egy, but I think Ra need the roc to vs other civs. Better to adjust some unfair units bonus for Egy vs Norse. 1. Chariot Archer does full damage when Toxotes and Arcus do x0.9 vs RC 2. TA does x2.75 vs Hoplites, Myrmidons. But x2.25 to vs Spearman 3. Peltast, Turma do x2, and Slinger does x3 vs TA. When they all do x4 vs Archers. 4. Axeman full bonus on Norse's hero |
xZELGADISx |
Dec 11 2020, 07:05 PM
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#11
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Corporal Group: Members Posts: 105 AOM Replays: 0 Submissions: None Joined: 17-November 19 Member No.: 124,454 |
1 like for the fact nyan isnt the boss and the thread got (friendly) ignored... the patch doesnt balance nothing, except Gaia passing from because pass from bottom to top tier :whistle: but a little credit for some idea maybe, something here worth a test but alone everyone change a f8uk... This post has been edited by xZELGADISx: Dec 11 2020, 07:06 PM |
Nemesis |
Dec 12 2020, 12:41 AM
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#12
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General Group: AoT Gosu Posts: 4,341 AOM Replays: 243 Submissions: None Joined: 31-December 03 Member No.: 2,288 |
It might be a good idea to have separate threads to discuss major balance changes and smaller changes. I'm all for trying out lots of small changes although those are hard to agree on and would take more work if multiple patches were required since chronojj said its hard to test. I think a lot of people play badly against some civs and it would take a while to talk through everything. Like, I've noticed everyone wants to fight nonstop, instead of raid and build up defenses. Of course gods like odin/zeus/oranos have an edge at 6-8 min if you're going to fight straight up. We used to want people to make 100% ulfsarks because they would just all die later. No one really uses cheiroballista properly but maybe their speed is too low? You're supposed to leave them defensive with walls/buildings in home base until 2nd tc if you make any and most people bring them forward, lose them all, then cry imba. Also I'm pretty sure ulfs lose to murmillo and hoplites 1v1 with 80 hp if you wait to fight. Cheiroballista are really strong against egypt classic army so its hard to buff. I've been watching a lot of streams lately. People keep losing to odin rag. Either rush norse early, or if you do go 2 tc then build a lot of buildings, walls, counter infantry, wall your trade, make towers, raid with 2 groups, etc. People years ago used to play better against norse. Now everyone just groups their army into 1 group, walks back and forth in the middle and tries to gain an advantage like they are some Roman army in 60 bc, oh, he might not turn around this time! This post has been edited by Nemesis: Dec 12 2020, 12:53 AM |
xZELGADISx |
Dec 12 2020, 02:12 PM
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#13
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Corporal Group: Members Posts: 105 AOM Replays: 0 Submissions: None Joined: 17-November 19 Member No.: 124,454 |
QUOTE(Nemesis @ Dec 12 2020, 12:41 AM) It might be a good idea to have separate threads to discuss major balance changes and smaller changes. I'm all for trying out lots of small changes although those are hard to agree on and would take more work if multiple patches were required since chronojj said its hard to test. I think a lot of people play badly against some civs and it would take a while to talk through everything. Like, I've noticed everyone wants to fight nonstop, instead of raid and build up defenses. Of course gods like odin/zeus/oranos have an edge at 6-8 min if you're going to fight straight up. We used to want people to make 100% ulfsarks because they would just all die later. No one really uses cheiroballista properly but maybe their speed is too low? You're supposed to leave them defensive with walls/buildings in home base until 2nd tc if you make any and most people bring them forward, lose them all, then cry imba. Also I'm pretty sure ulfs lose to murmillo and hoplites 1v1 with 80 hp if you wait to fight. Cheiroballista are really strong against egypt classic army so its hard to buff. I've been watching a lot of streams lately. People keep losing to odin rag. Either rush norse early, or if you do go 2 tc then build a lot of buildings, walls, counter infantry, wall your trade, make towers, raid with 2 groups, etc. People years ago used to play better against norse. Now everyone just groups their army into 1 group, walks back and forth in the middle and tries to gain an advantage like they are some Roman army in 60 bc, oh, he might not turn around this time! -Cheiroballista doesnt need a buff, but a little change probabily yes as told from someone recently the main matter of them is their high population cost, 4 is high and make them difficult to spamming, this may be one of the solution for the norse and myrmydon spam matter... Right now chierro are worth just for some rare huskarl and destroyer spam at best, right? - Ragnarock need a nerf or better a rework, it may make it similar to ancestor gp, then from here we may see if it's the case with test doing other changes (like for example Fimbulwinter with wolfs generating favor, a more balanced norse army in classic? This post has been edited by xZELGADISx: Dec 12 2020, 02:16 PM |
xZELGADISx |
Dec 12 2020, 02:14 PM
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#14
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Corporal Group: Members Posts: 105 AOM Replays: 0 Submissions: None Joined: 17-November 19 Member No.: 124,454 |
I would liked more the nyan's suggestion (and I repeat again something good or worth to try there are here) if I see some ideas for give a sense to some god's uique bonus such as Poseidon's Lord of Horses is total bullspit tech, NO ONE USE I maybe add to it a 10% cav speed. the Hades Shades need maybe a little higher hp bonus (better quality?) or just per age advancement give someone free such as Set's animal (better quantity?), of course in a balanced way... The last 3 armory bonus of Thor seem a interesting bonus BUT A TOTAL BULLS-IT for how managed since vanilla, why pay 500 gold wood etc and having first all line before trained, IMPOSSIBLE in supremacy, they may be give free in Heroic the 10% pierce and hack armor and in Mythic the hammer of gods for 10% Bye This post has been edited by xZELGADISx: Dec 12 2020, 02:15 PM |
Crysi |
Jan 26 2021, 07:23 AM
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#15
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Corporal Group: Members Posts: 100 AOM Replays: 6 Submissions: None Joined: 11-December 03 Member No.: 1,819 |
I know it's a "old" thread but: Some of the changes to norse are good, like Thundering Hooves cheaper. Older player maybe know: TH used to give +20% HP/Speed for the same cost. Now it's +10% both but insane cost. A cost reduction should be made. Other changes like: All the changes on unit production time: Ulf can be used vs cronos rush and hero harras on medit. Ulf should be untouched but he is weak, maybe consider a +5HP buff like in EE. Other units production time reduction (cool rhyme) makes Heimdall rush even harder to defend as Thor. I think Thor needs a small buff in early classical, not cheaper line/amory. That's not the problem. Maybe make longhouses cheaper for Thor, so you can up with 1 less Vill on wood or make Tower upgrade easier to get. Also a buff mainly for Thor would be to give Trolls more speed. I never saw a Loki massing Trolls but thought, it would be possible. Trolls are great vs Heimdall rush and can be used to give a little protection against roc. Making them stronger vs mythic units could be OP, but a slight bonus vs flying units would make sence since the stymphalian birds kill Trolls very fast and a better defend against roc would give a bit more breathing room for Thor vs Roc Raiding. I think atlantean gatherrate on berry/chicken/herdables is a bit too high or the rates of the other civs are a bit too slow in comparison. The TA does not have the same BD vs Murmillo, as it is vs Hops/Mirmidon. Murmillo/Hops have both 34% hack armor. Hops have more HP. Go into the editor and you will see that the Hoplite will die faster to TA. It evens out with medium upgrade since hops profit more of it. Not sure about the exact numbers but i don't trust Ekantas or some sheets in the internet or books. Also a personal note: You can consider Thor and Gaia into a lower Tier as the "stronger" gods. But Oranos, Zeus, Set (In this Order) are just easier to play. Thor is difficult to play, even small decisions can break your game. Thor is hard to play, hard to master. I don't consider Thor and Gaia as weak. The Tier one gods are easy to play but also hard to master. See Shelty got 1950 with Thor fighting many Zeus and Oranos or Magic got Top 1 with Gaia once. But i don't see many gods in Voobly beside Oranos, Zeus, sometimes Ra, Odin, Loki, Poseidon, Hades. In 80+ Games no Gaia, 2-3 Thor, 1 Cronos. I think playing with Gaia and Thor needs a resistant to frustrating losses until it gets slowly better. Im not sure how it compeats in 1800++ but 1750 Zeus/Oranos is beatable as Thor. PS: I like some of your changes, others are not neccessary or are at least part of a proper discussion, but you have guts like ES to bring fresh wind into the game. AoT Player don't like too heavy or many changes, they even refused the VB at some point. VB balanced the worst broken things in a good way but does not change the fact that Thor/Gaia play isn't that benefical. Cudos :) This post has been edited by Crysi: Jan 26 2021, 09:12 AM |
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