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Lord of Horses
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JahnTeller
post Aug 8 2017, 07:18 PM
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Lord of the horses should cost wood instead of food.
How about it also adds speed? Or damage vs buildings or damage vs villagers or decrease build time; also adds bonus to podromus and hetaroi?
Also, Cyclops are very expensive, how about make it cost less? Ares is the God of War and his upgrades are generally bad, could have a little buf or instead of benefiting infantry/tox benefit cavalary.

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Hagrit
post Aug 8 2017, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE(Raccoon @ Aug 5 2017, 05:52 AM)
I was thinking about couple of things..
Lord of horses food price should be cheaper definetly, but is it also possible making hipolita and chiron accuracy equal to odysseus's? So they dont have to miss constantly first shot.

Same could be said about Gaia/Kronos unique upgrades being complete garbage sadly..
Maybe improving Gaia lush? It could be the main thing cool about gaia like maybe making her units/buildings regenerate hp on it slowly or units have more speed on it? (idea taken from Zerg in sc2, sry for unoriginality)

Also are there any chances Hades might receive some buffs? Like cheaper fortress or improved sentinels/siege? Improve Perseus maybe? He is pretty bad compared to Polyphemus/Belle..
Maybe increasing Shade stats equal to hoplites would be cool. Like if poseidons has every 10th hippikon free and hades needs to lose his army to have 20% chance to get shades who are just weak. I mean nobody wants to suicide army even if you would get free minotaur out of it kinda.
Hades is currently the only 'unplayable' god sadly.

Also for egyptians Sekhmet is quite underused :/
buffing him would be cool too like maybe increasing pop which Citadel provides or increasing Scarabs blood splash death damage.

These were some core things that flew into my mind when miracleman mentioned Lord of Horses upgrade.. Maybe its a bit too revolutionary but oh well...
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i'm working on the EE patch thats coming up, and some changes to hades from there could be interesting. what we have done is increase the distance sentinel spawns from the tc by 4, aswell as increase the sentinel count from 4 to 5. it definately looks cool :P other than that we gave chiron 6 track rating, like hippolyta and odysseus, aswell as slightly buff perseus, halved his bonus dmg vs myth but increased his hack attack from 7 to 13. and gave him another 40 hp extra, and increased his special attack range to a whopping 15.

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Raccoon
post Aug 9 2017, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE(Hagrit @ Aug 8 2017, 08:43 PM)
QUOTE(Raccoon @ Aug 5 2017, 05:52 AM)
I was thinking about couple of things..
Lord of horses food price should be cheaper definetly, but is it also possible making hipolita and chiron accuracy equal to odysseus's? So they dont have to miss constantly first shot.

Same could be said about Gaia/Kronos unique upgrades being complete garbage sadly..
Maybe improving Gaia lush? It could be the main thing cool about gaia like maybe making her units/buildings regenerate hp on it slowly or units have more speed on it? (idea taken from Zerg in sc2, sry for unoriginality)

Also are there any chances Hades might receive some buffs? Like cheaper fortress or improved sentinels/siege? Improve Perseus maybe? He is pretty bad compared to Polyphemus/Belle..
Maybe increasing Shade stats equal to hoplites would be cool. Like if poseidons has every 10th hippikon free and hades needs to lose his army to have 20% chance to get shades who are just weak. I mean nobody wants to suicide army even if you would get free minotaur out of it kinda.
Hades is currently the only 'unplayable' god sadly.

Also for egyptians Sekhmet is quite underused :/
buffing him would be cool too like maybe increasing pop which Citadel provides or increasing Scarabs blood splash death damage.

These were some core things that flew into my mind when miracleman mentioned Lord of Horses upgrade.. Maybe its a bit too revolutionary but oh well...
*




i'm working on the EE patch thats coming up, and some changes to hades from there could be interesting. what we have done is increase the distance sentinel spawns from the tc by 4, aswell as increase the sentinel count from 4 to 5. it definately looks cool :P other than that we gave chiron 6 track rating, like hippolyta and odysseus, aswell as slightly buff perseus, halved his bonus dmg vs myth but increased his hack attack from 7 to 13. and gave him another 40 hp extra, and increased his special attack range to a whopping 15.
*



Im not a fan of EE, but Im very interested how this will go :o , you can try maybe increasing Perseus range of his Gaze ability so he will be able to you know, pick a MU and run without instantly dying :D. I thought there will be no more patching for EE tho..

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Hagrit
post Aug 9 2017, 12:01 PM
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Yeah his special attack range is now 15, like i said :P

The patch is kinda being treated as the last patch for EE, so trying to make the best of it.
Nakamuras petition got a response and he is putting together a prioritized list, and i am making a balance mod out of it to test the balance :P

If your curious about the many other changes out there, take a look at this

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file.../?id=1100817124

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Raccoon
post Aug 10 2017, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE(Hagrit @ Aug 9 2017, 12:01 PM)
Yeah his special attack range is now 15, like i said :P

The patch is kinda being treated as the last patch for EE, so trying to make the best of it.
Nakamuras petition got a response and he is putting together a prioritized list, and i am making a balance mod out of it to test the balance :P

If your curious about the many other changes out there, take a look at this

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file.../?id=1100817124
*



These are really nice changes except i got no clue about chinese ones xD

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Nemesis
post Aug 14 2017, 01:48 PM
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Lord of Horses is much stronger than eyes in the forest, it gives a much larger percent boost to LOS, since infantry already have decent LOS. The cost is too high, although it should only have either the favor or the food cost reduced, imo, probably not both. It should be able to be gotten early with spirited charge, but not both right away. Currently you have to pick between them and spirited charge wins out since you can just scout where to raid.

That's what I thought at first, depending how much maybe both costs could be reduced, by 50% or so... still going to be overpowered, but I love cavalry anyway

This post has been edited by Nemesis: Aug 14 2017, 02:05 PM

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MiracleMan
post Aug 15 2017, 03:34 AM
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"Lord of Horses is much stronger than eyes in the forest, it gives a much larger percent boost to LOS, since infantry already have decent LOS". What do you mean by that? The thing is LoH gives +4 LOS, whereas Eyes in the forest +3, just one less, yet starting Hippikon LOS is 8, whereas for Hersirs its 16 (twice as much, notice). And exactly for that reason making Lord of Horses cheaper is vital, in a lot of situations its way too risky to raid with cavalry without the upgrade. Don't forget that it stands as a unique bonus upgrade for Poseidon cavalry, but is left out of the game in most cases due to its cost.


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Nemesis
post Aug 15 2017, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE(MiracleMan77 @ Aug 15 2017, 08:34 AM)
LoH gives +4 LOS, whereas Eyes in the forest +3, just one less, yet starting Hippikon LOS is 8, whereas for Hersirs its 16 (twice as much, notice).
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Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about! The upgrade is so strong, it moves hippikon los from 8 to 12, thats a 50% increase, where as for a hersir it is under 20%. Seeing as hersir already have a decent starting LOS, there is little incentive to getting eyes in the forest compared to lord of horses, if they have the same cost.

If people could get it at the same time as spirited charge, well, I'd be playing poseidon a lot more and killing peoples villagers. Make hippikons or raiding cavalry when you see the pelt of argus relic and see how big of a difference it is. The favor cost is the toughest part for greeks, since for both spirited charge and lord of horses, as well as the ranged hero, you need 37

QUOTE(MiracleMan77 @ Aug 15 2017, 08:34 AM)
in a lot of situations its way too risky to raid with cavalry without the upgrade
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Not really sure about this, maybe agree to disagree? I've been playing since vanilla and I've seen hundreds of games with people raiding in aot as well with low-los units.

This post has been edited by Nemesis: Aug 15 2017, 12:24 PM

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AciD_Weasel
post Aug 15 2017, 06:20 PM
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Loki has to buy eyes of forest on the latest patch because of the speed nerfs/overhaul and trust me it hurts a lot vs oranos :P without it the hersirs are way too slow and buying it causes production downtime!

As for lord of horses, reducing cav training time by 10% would be decent, as well as dropping the food cost to 100.

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Ri0t_
post Aug 16 2017, 10:13 PM
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Great now this would be harder to fight greek if training time of horses is decreased, since loki hersirs take so long to train and are slow now with poor LOS and have to get favour by first fighting which he cant early game.
Possible just let the upgrade do what it was intended to do? i.e. greater LOS for caval with like idk 25% decrease cost, since the LOS get +4 which is quite alot.

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IamDeadMan
post Aug 21 2017, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE(aymanTPP @ Aug 2 2017, 04:31 AM)
QUOTE(IamMagic @ Aug 1 2017, 08:18 PM)
QUOTE(MiracleMan77 @ Aug 1 2017, 12:50 PM)
 

2) Or add some other bonus effect for that price: for instance, I talked to Mista about this and he proposed to add 10% bonus damage to pierce units as a variant.

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Rip chariots
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lol
ok now if i had to bring that to board how about buffing a bit isis inf my freaking spearman get rekt by raiding cavlr ?????????????????
My axeman can't even stand 1v1 to hoplite ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Slingers get rekt by turma's and they do no damage ( well they are using rocks after all )
won't you agree magic ?
in late game for real 10 spearman lose to 10 raiding cavl both full upgrade it's just super stupid
#makeisisbetter again
*



Please stop....

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Black Adder
post Aug 31 2017, 10:55 PM
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All right I've cleaned up the thread of the spam and useless flaming, so please everyone keep the discussion on the useful topic from now on, and this goes to everyone - don't get baited by obvious trolls, just simply ignore them, nobody takes them seriously anyway.

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Illuminaze
post Sep 1 2017, 03:36 PM
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Lord of horses is a useless tech so far, even in lategame I don't bother researching it unless I have nothing else to upgrade, but the thing to analise is HADES. It is the only god that can't be played at high level (except by mista/magic). Poseidon got buffed with hetarois and 4th age hero, gaia recieved a lot of buffs, odin the same, kronos, but what about hades? Gastraphetes are very bad compared to petrobolos in terms of pop efficiency, pop is the same and they suck as siege, and you will always prefer 3 toxotes instead of 2 gastraphetes, so basically you should never make them. Imo they should recieve a buff.

Discuss

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WizSanji
post Sep 1 2017, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE(Illuminaze @ Sep 2 2017, 08:36 AM)
Lord of horses is a useless tech so far, even in lategame I don't bother researching it unless I have nothing else to upgrade, but the thing to analise is HADES. It is the only god that can't be played at high level (except by mista/magic). Poseidon got buffed with hetarois and 4th age hero, gaia recieved a lot of buffs, odin the same, kronos, but what about hades? Gastraphetes are very bad compared to petrobolos in terms of pop efficiency, pop is the same and they suck as siege, and you will always prefer 3 toxotes instead of 2 gastraphetes, so basically you should never make them. Imo they should recieve a buff.

Discuss
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Yeah Hades is pretty trash atm

JJ said he wanted to increase hades tox movement speed but I think they either won't do much or make hades op depending on how much the tox gets. (could still be interesting to try though)

I suggest make fortress cheaper for Hades, increase Perseus movement speed or special cast range. Decrease building time for stable/barracks/archery range. Slightly increase Hades specially tech and make it give Shades more hp or ms.

This post has been edited by WizSanji: Sep 1 2017, 07:46 PM

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Nemesis
post Sep 2 2017, 12:49 AM
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I think it's a fine tech if the cost is reduced by 50-75%, if it's cheap it's actually very strong from 8-12 minutes early game and still good mid game.

If hippikons train faster, then that would possibly require norse to spam ulfsarks and more hersir, which would not do as well as raiding cavalry (for a 2 pop unit they train slow) once toxotes are added in.



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