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Voobly Balance Patch 3.0 Released
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Crysi
post Apr 14 2019, 02:34 PM
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After some month of playing it seems like most players choose set, oranos, zeus as gods. As they see thor as an opponent especially often zeus. There are already some changes to weaken zeus but zeus is not as op vs thor as he is vs egyptians. So i think the solution is not to make zeus weaker and weaker.

I think thor needs some little buffs in the zeus vs thor matchup! Thor is not bad vs isis and gaia but these gods are so rare so that thor is mainly in an inferior matchup most of the time since thors defenses are the weakest in the game.

So i SUGGEST for an disscussion:

1. Make norse houses, temple and dock to an normal level like all other civs have.

Temple (960 HP) to 1200 HP
House (360 HP) to 450 HP
Dock (1280 HP) to 1600 HP

2. Revert the Hill Fort nerf from 1.07 Vanilla patch, back to its original state:

Was nerfed like this:

· Hill Forts cost increased by 50 for both wood and gold.
· Hill Forts attack range decreased by 2.

Especially im comparison to Set's 300 Gold or Isis prosperity and still only 400 Gold or Ra's Hathor -15% Migdol price it is very unbalanced. In comparison to the other forts the hill fort is always the weakest in terms of attack and HP.

3. Make thunderin hooves cheaper: From 300 food / 20 favor to 200 food / 15 favor.

This tech was original a lot better (+20% HP and speed) but it still costs a lot. I don't recommend to get its op-ness back to 20% but 300 food to a already high food dependent civ is too much.

4. Reduce training time (17seconds) of rading cav. -3 seconds. Im comparison to poseidon: the hippikon take around 20 seconds (in classical only) to produce but the stables are so cheap 75 wood to 110 wood.

5. Get the attack boost of fenris wolf to its original state. The max speed with 8.0 is nerfed to 7.0 which is good. But the attack is too low now.

6. Give the troll +0.6 speed. The troll is a strong unit but gets easily sniped out from odysseus, even from melee heros. Centaur are a cheaper unit with less armor but with the most speed it all comes down to skill. Make these units more skill dependent with a bit more speed.

7. Fix the bug where heros don't get bonus attack by convertet set animals. The multiplier only works on set animals with the tag: X of Set. E. g. ape of set, giraffe of set. These units are myth units. Converted animals are no mythic units and so Hersir/heros in general don't get the bonus.

8. Make Levy and Conscripted Training reducing techs cheaper for all civs.

9. Make baldr Artic Gale tech to a tech an tower upgrade. It should give the same as all the other civs have: guard tower upgrade. Odin would have the opportunity to defend really good vs a ragna vs ragna situation in thor vs odin after failed heimdall rush. I really like this idea!

10. Make walls to theire original state. Hoplites of zeus melt down all defenses of norse. The walls are especially weak now vs zeus, which is the only chance vs restore.

11. Make both mercs cost +10 gold each.

12. Nerf the Shaduf tech of ptah. E. g. cost from 150 wood / 10 favor to 200 wood / 15 favor and gives only -25% cost and - 20% build time. Or make all farms from other civs cost - 10 wood in general.

13. Tornado op! Earthquake is strong vs buildings but with masons and some production facilities it is counterable by skill. Ligthing storm is strong vs units but you can upgrade shields or garrison by skill. Tornado on the other hand is uncounterable, with fortified tc's and masons it can barely survive with no other damage but catapults are so op adding to the problem! Also tornado is always 100% strong with units and builings around it, it does not change the damage. So i recommend to weaken tornado by -10% - 15%.

14. Make Heka Gigantes a different unit. This unit have the best attack of all units in game beside titan. His attack is 30 crush / 25 hack * 2= 60 crush / 50 hack per second. It is even stronger then behemot vs buildings. The problem is, it have no armor and get killed instantly by priest or other heros.

Make him - 15 crush attack / - 10 hack attack so he have 15*2 = 30 crush / 15hack*2 = 30 hack and match the armor of a fire giant, so he have 43% hack to 60% hack and 43% pierce to 80 pierce.

15. Buff the very underpowered throwing axeman to his original base damage: From 4.5 to 5 hack. And +175% vs all infantry and norse heros exept ulfsark.

I thought about this point a long time and there is no reason why TA should be +175% vs hoplites/myrmidon but only +125% vs murmillos, spearman, axeman, fanatics, throwing axeman and ulfsark.

Murmillos are much bulkier then ulfsark but match nearly the same price. Especially on low food maps atlantean berry gatherer rate is +10% in comparison to norse. (basic berry gatherer rate of norse is 80% of the basic hunt rate. 90% for atlanteans).

Spearman and Axeman have a basic 40% hack armor, they resist the TA's so hard and Axeman have +300% vs TA's. Usually the slinger and chariot is the counter to TA's not egyptian classic infantry only...

Fanatics are very costly but with 40% armor they resists the TA and norse usually dont have archers as an alternative.

Ragna op. Make it possible for loki to kill the ragna heros with TA's but also make it possible that a thor player can counter the flame weapons push with so many hersir!

16. Give isis the anc power back what is was without voobly balance patch. I don't see any isis players, who can work against the zeus/loki epidemic!

17. Gives Thor goldmine +500 gold in classical.

There is also a general problem with thor, that it is extremly hard to secure gold vs 2 greek heros and mass hoplites/hippikon. Odin always have defensive hunt but thor only have the goldmine and produce dwarfs without hunt.

I fell like Loki and Zeus are most op vs thor. These changes should buff thor and nerf ragna. I swear in like 300 matches i saw 5 thor. Also the voobly top 5 noone plays thor or even norse, they all play oranos and set! Make this game more popular by buffering the weak gods and popularity might grow :)

This post has been edited by Crysi: Apr 14 2019, 02:56 PM

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ILuvMagyar
post Apr 14 2019, 03:11 PM
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I can definitely agree with 90 percent of what u said, i just dont understande the isis part, shw is just so OP still, also id say taht painted desert map is horrible, is so predictable!! and that frozen wastes also kind of, i mean some resources spawning are basically the same everygame it gets so boeing, is there a way to delet those maps from the game? Also i Still think Set/ZeusHades vs Loki are till pretty crappy match ups most of the time, something needs to be done there too.

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Crysi
post Apr 14 2019, 05:58 PM
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Well thats true, but i only play thor and i can only mention his main weaknesses. I think a problem with Loki is: Loki players do always the same: Hersir raid, flame weapons push and addition or later hel push with fire giants.

Thor vs Isis was even before voobly patch, thats why i think you can get it back to normal. But seems like other gods have more problems...

If loki player would play a bit outside of the meta like spamming heimdall towers or using the trolls vs egyptian, because the egyptian axeman rocks vs hersir but they suck vs trolls. Upgraded trolls are hard to kill since they stand on the other side of the battle vs pharao/priest.

This post has been edited by Crysi: Apr 14 2019, 06:12 PM

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Hagrit
post Apr 14 2019, 06:14 PM
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sorry but, the matchup although zeus favored, is not nearly unwinnable. in fact some maps (like watering hole) favor norse.

There's some decent changes listed but if you were to implement even half of them, thor would become top tier instantly. (except maybe vs set)

I don't think zeus is the problem here, It's Set.

Also, a bunch of changes listed make alot of impact on other matchups. such as the wall change to original state ?? im sure 99% of people would not want to see 1 vill outrepair 12 norse units again on walls.

The fenris buff can't be split up. speed + damage are all the same modifier, they're not seperate.

also


7. Fix the bug where heros don't get bonus attack by convertet set animals. The multiplier only works on set animals with the tag: X of Set. E. g. ape of set, giraffe of set. These units are myth units. Converted animals are no mythic units and so Hersir/heros in general don't get the bonus.

This isn't a bug. if you were to do this, then hersirs/all heroes will get bonus damage vs all huntable animals. you could just run around the map 1-hitting most animals for crazy myth spawns as loki.

I do agree hill forts should get their range back to 20.
Cost though, considering they are already cheaper than greek fortresses (and only 5 favor) i think their cost is fine.

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Crysi
post Apr 14 2019, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE(Hagrit @ Apr 14 2019, 11:14 PM)
sorry but, the matchup although zeus favored, is not nearly unwinnable. in fact some maps (like watering hole) favor norse.

There's some decent changes listed but if you were to implement even half of them, thor would become top tier instantly. (except maybe vs set)

I don't think zeus is the problem here, It's Set.

Also, a bunch of changes listed make alot of impact on other matchups. such as the wall change to original state ?? im sure 99% of people would not want to see 1 vill outrepair 12 norse units again on walls.

The fenris buff can't be split up. speed + damage are all the same modifier, they're not seperate.

also


7. Fix the bug where heros don't get bonus attack by convertet set animals. The multiplier only works on set animals with the tag: X of Set. E. g. ape of set, giraffe of set. These units are myth units. Converted animals are no mythic units and so Hersir/heros in general don't get the bonus.

This isn't a bug. if you were to do this, then hersirs/all heroes will get bonus damage vs all huntable animals. you could just run around the map 1-hitting most animals for crazy myth spawns as loki.

I do agree hill forts should get their range back to 20.
Cost though, considering they are already cheaper than greek fortresses (and only 5 favor) i think their cost is fine.
*




I just mean get the wall armor to its original state. Loki can also kill normal hunt without bonus and gets free mythic units, it is already abusable...

But anyway i see many map screws in the voobly balance patch like ghostlake have no initial hunt and is a lot more low hunt then it is in AoM Ex. I consider to bring the old mapmaking system back...

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Razor911
post Apr 18 2019, 04:05 AM
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Is it possible to use this patch offline to play the campaign for example or against AI in my game or do I need Voobly running for the patch to work?

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Crysi
post Apr 25 2019, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE(Razor911 @ Apr 18 2019, 09:05 AM)
Is it possible to use this patch offline to play the campaign for example or against AI in my game or do I need Voobly running for the patch to work?
*



As far as i know you have to start via Voobly and use the patch you want, you can download older voobly patches, just search in Google: Voobly Balance Patch 2.0 or 1.5, 1.6 etc.

You can start a game with only one player and switch back from lan to single player. Im not 100% sure if the patch works for the campain, but vs a AI for sure. But even the AoM Vanilla campaign have the autoque included if you have Titans.

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Razor911
post Apr 29 2019, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE(Crysi @ Apr 25 2019, 06:45 PM)
QUOTE(Razor911 @ Apr 18 2019, 09:05 AM)
Is it possible to use this patch offline to play the campaign for example or against AI in my game or do I need Voobly running for the patch to work?
*



As far as i know you have to start via Voobly and use the patch you want, you can download older voobly patches, just search in Google: Voobly Balance Patch 2.0 or 1.5, 1.6 etc.

You can start a game with only one player and switch back from lan to single player. Im not 100% sure if the patch works for the campain, but vs a AI for sure. But even the AoM Vanilla campaign have the autoque included if you have Titans.
*




Alright thanks I managed to get it working vs AI which is all I really wanted.



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