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Mass Effect series and Indoctrination Theory
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DoD_Nakamura
post Sep 15 2014, 10:46 PM
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To all of you who have not played the Mass effect games, you definitely have been missing out on the potentially greatest creation of the 21st century... it's not too late to catch up. Talk to me in PM about where to get them from, in case you're having trouble.

To describe the trilogy: You're Commander Shepard, a character that you will be able to form yourself in this interstellar environment set 170ish years in the future. Humanity is only one of the many major species capable of space flight in the galaxy, but all of these are are linked by the same "mass effect" technology, making for a relative galactic peace. You will be facing the struggle of the entire galaxy as you will fight against a force attempting to wipe it out...

The game itself is a mixture between a third person shooter and an RPG, with a lot of conversations inbetween and during missions. Each time, you'll be able to pick from dialogue options, which will have different consequences depending on a lot of things... What I'm getting at here is that each playthrough will be extremely different unless you make the same choices.

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvqYN2RJfVA

If you wish to avoid further spoilers, stop reading now and start playing. Once you beat the trilogy(DLCs included!), you may comment on the main topic here.

THIS IS WHERE THE INTRO ENDS

If you have played through the entire series, DLCs included, (or even without them, it doesn't make that much difference to this topic really) you definitely must have felt weird about the ending. Shocked. Disappointed.

It cannot be as it is, can it?

Whichever ending you chose, your feelings about it will probably be very similar.
In case you have never heard of the indoctrination theory, you can catch up with it through the following documentaries in the spoilers below (DO NOT open if you haven't played the games!!)

Part1:

Part2:

Part3:

As these were made before the extended cut/leviathan DLC(except for part 3), some of the information and speculation is invalid. After having watched it all, I only can think about 3 such scenes right now, which makes the remaining 5 hours of this review very relevant.

To start off on the topic, I personally believe in the indoctrination theory, based on all the evidence as well as developer comments suggesting it to be true.
For me, this means that the ending hasn't actually happened. The reapers are still wrecking havok, and someone has to top it. Shepard only survives in his human form if he resists indoctrination, so does this mean that he will appear in the coming next ME installation?

I could write pages and pages of my thoughts on this, but I'd like to see this topic becoming a discussion rather than a monologue, so I'll stop writing for tonight. Looking forward to replies!

This post has been edited by DoD_Nakamura: Sep 15 2014, 10:47 PM

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URMY_Hero
post Sep 16 2014, 12:21 AM
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dude brb in 1-3 month, downloading ok

This post has been edited by URMY_Hero: Sep 16 2014, 12:22 AM

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KoN_Meathook
post Sep 16 2014, 04:36 AM
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Loved the games and actually enjoyed the ending (didn't have time to play through #3 so I watched the story on youtube back in the). As far as the indoctrination goes, I enjoyed the story so much as it was presented that I have no need to speculate in what this and that means. But it's pretty cool to see so many people crafting one theory after another over a video game story. It says something about the narrative impact that lies in games and certainly backs up the statement which holds video games as an artistic branch on the same level as movies/theatre.

I agree with that statement and think ME is an amazing example it. Red Dead Redemption should also be mentioned in that context - I for one see it as a modern story telling pioneer for video games.

Sorry I don't have anything more to offer @topic, but I enjoy the digression. :P

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DoD_Nakamura
post Sep 16 2014, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE(URMY_Hero @ Sep 16 2014, 07:21 AM)
dude brb in 1-3 month, downloading ok
*


Haha glad to hear it!

Meathook: a lot of people have been happy with the ending from the start. You not having played through it and having watched from the observer's perspective makes me want to make the connection between reduced emotional impact and acceptance.
Correct me if i'm wrong of course.

ME 3 just has such numerous clues that suggest that Shepard is resisting indoctrination, however it's hard to pay attention to it on a first play-through simply due to the vast amount of content.

Have you let the rachni queen live in ME1? If so, do you remember how it was talking about "sour voices" and comparing them to "oily shadows" that have taken control of the generation before it? Now look at Shepard's nightmares in ME3, and tell me that you can't hear and see these things.

How can the kid at the start of the game all of a sudden move from the top of an empty building to another when they are not connected? Where does the grassy top of that building go when you check it out later? How does the kid walk through a locked door? How does the kid survive the reaper beam blasting the building he's in especially while being in a ventillation duct? He should be charred bones right about then. Yet shepard can see him when he gets there. Anderson can't. And once Anderson interrupts Shep, the kid is gone without having made a noise in the duct?

Why would indoctrination not start to affect Shep after having been unconcious right next to a reaper artifact for a good two days?

A lot of stuff that people mention is valid, another half can be just called inconsistency or bug, but overall there are way too many things that are irrefutable.

Take a look at the final charge itself: Harbinger has every means of destroying Shepard, but he doesn't want to. He stated that Shep's mind "will be theirs", so why would he want to destroy him if he wanted to control him? The reapers are seeing something special about humanity, which is why they were designing a reaper in our shape. Shepard is the best representation humanity could have for its qualities; he is a symbol of courage and hope. So once Harbinger keeps firing at people, they just disintegrate. Their molecules become gases, if not plasma. There is no way in hell Shep can survive that with just his armor burned. If your preparation level is low, you will lose team mates to his beams. They will just disintegrate, like everyone else. But if you look at that variation of the scene, Harbinger reverses his angle on the shot; he fires BEHIND THEM instead in front of them, in order to minimize the chance of hitting Shep. In the variation where the Normandy picks up your crew to save them, he does not fire on the ship, even though he could, but the explosion would be likely to kill Shep. So he doesn't. Once everyone else is dead and he gets a clear shot, he does shoot Shepard... but doesn't kill him. Perhaps he toned his power down? It seems to be in order to break Shep's already weakened mental state, which given this proximity means safe, successful indoctrination. But Shep's mind is still salvagable and you can fight it as the player.

At this point, why is Major Coats calling off the push? There's nothing to fall back to. Harbinger leaves the moment he does that, so why doesn't he reverse the order? Is he indoctrinated? Is anything real after this point? What's up with the hoarded bodies at the side? How did those get there? Why bother changing the environment here as a time pressed company? Those ugly 2d models look like Kaidan and Ashley repeated all over... Shep's guilt perhaps? It would make sense if the purpose was breaking the last of his willpower.

The list goes on, but I hope this is enough to prompt you to try out ME3 :P


Also definitely agree that storytelling through games has been taken to a new level in ME. Will check out Red Dead Redemption now.

This post has been edited by DoD_Nakamura: Sep 16 2014, 07:25 AM

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stapla05
post Sep 17 2014, 02:49 AM
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I remember playing one of the mass effect games years ago. I think it was either 1 or 2,it had great graphics at the time a very addictive story line on the up side. On the down side some of the levels were quite boring and there were a few bugs here and there nothing that ruined my experience. I recommend someone playing this game it was very creative game and worth playing/watching more than once like starwars.

This post has been edited by stapla05: Sep 17 2014, 02:50 AM

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KoN_Meathook
post Sep 18 2014, 01:22 AM
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QUOTE
a lot of people have been happy with the ending from the start. You not having played through it and having watched from the observer's perspective makes me want to make the connection between reduced emotional impact and acceptance.


Oh yes no doubt about it. I gather you become much more involved with the story when you have some sort of relationship to the main character. Still, I was surprised over how enjoyable the story mode on youtube actually was.

I don't have time to play it through, but I will take a look at those vids - your post was too good to ignore.

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DoD_Nakamura
post Sep 18 2014, 07:47 AM
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Okay, sounds good. About Red Dead Redemption, I currently don't have a PS3/4, would you say that using youtube like you did for ME 3 is good enough? I probably will eventually have access to a PS, but probably only in like a year, as there's a lot of more important things to spend on atm, such as moving.

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KoN_Meathook
post Sep 18 2014, 11:30 PM
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I think Red Dead Redemption is relying on relations to the main character even more than the ME-series. Big parts of the story and sidetracks are also revealed in game like for example while horse riding towards your mission. Not sure if it would be that rewarding to watch on youtube tbh. It's not available for PC?

This post has been edited by KoN_Meathook: Sep 18 2014, 11:51 PM

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DoD_Nakamura
post Sep 19 2014, 07:56 AM
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Nope. Guess I'll wait!

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SupermansPal
post Sep 19 2014, 08:16 AM
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Read Dead Redemption is one of my all time favorites, I love the setting and the captivating story! It's also pretty cheap meanwhile, so you should definitely give it a go :flowers:.

This post has been edited by SupermansPal: Sep 19 2014, 08:19 AM

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KoN_Meathook
post Nov 5 2014, 01:56 AM
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naks, you must check out The Walking Dead from TellTale Games. I started it yesterday, it tells the story in such a captivating way. Not related to the TV-show as far as I know, but same zombie-theme.

Finished chapter 1 yesterday, gonna dig in to chapter 2 very soon (cant wait)



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