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Tower Walling
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[Bo0t]Lucifer
post Mar 5 2012, 02:36 PM
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Since tower walling is pretty much accepted , i see this as a better alternative to my previous idea of forwarded wall sections which some of you (well , including myself *irony?*) disagreed with when Nakamura presented it .

Tower Walling is generally used defensively around some of the basic towers in supre , i tried forwarding walled towers which cannot be touched by melee units especially when they are used by Atlanteans . The concept is pretty simple.




My Oranos vs Nakamura's Isis :

Here's a rec game in which i performed this strat . Mind you this was my third time trying atty and the walled towers were a huge part of my victory .

http://rts-sanctuary.com/index.php?portal=...howtopic=212299

(IMG:http://i43.tinypic.com/2mi5imf.jpg)

Unless this is unacceptable , i plan on using this with Isis as well :hmm: .

This post has been edited by [Bo0t]Lucifer: Mar 5 2012, 03:05 PM

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DoD_Nakamura
post Mar 5 2012, 02:45 PM
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Imo you should absolutely use it.
Siege will still take the towers out, and this should be real interesting with the weaker norse towers as well.

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[Bo0t]Lucifer
post Mar 5 2012, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE([Bo0T�)
Nakamura,Mar 6 2012, 01:15 AM]
Imo you should absolutely use it.
Siege will still take the towers out, and this should be real interesting with the weaker norse towers as well.
*



Added screenshot .

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IamFalling
post Mar 5 2012, 03:10 PM
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Imo this just shows pure lack of skill.

The game of Deathmatch should not be turned into who can be the lamest with their walls.

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[Bo0t]Lucifer
post Mar 5 2012, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE(Cystic @ Mar 6 2012, 01:40 AM)
Imo this just shows pure lack of skill.

The game of Deathmatch should not be turned into who can be the lamest with their walls.
*




Skill has nothing to do with presenting a strategy , plus you always have the disadvantage of not microing your army while you wall your towers so its still something hard to pull off effectively.

Technically , these arent wall sections + they are used in supremacy + it is not a form of bug abuse .

Is there no way to please you :baby: ?

This post has been edited by [Bo0t]Lucifer: Mar 5 2012, 03:27 PM

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TSM_Player
post Mar 5 2012, 03:33 PM
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They are used in supremacy but unupgraded, and lmao at the amount of micro that you lose while making towers and wallls 11

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IamFalling
post Mar 5 2012, 03:40 PM
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QUOTE([Bo0t�)
Lucifer,Mar 5 2012, 04:26 PM]
QUOTE(Cystic @ Mar 6 2012, 01:40 AM)
Imo this just shows pure lack of skill.

The game of Deathmatch should not be turned into who can be the lamest with their walls.
*




Skill has nothing to do with presenting a strategy , plus you always have the disadvantage of not microing your army while you wall your towers so its still something hard to pull off effectively.

Technically , these arent wall sections + they are used in supremacy + it is not a form of bug abuse .

Is there no way to please you :baby: ?
*



You are wrong. If your "Strategy" Is to be as lame with walls as possible then so be it but trust me if you beat anyone you are in no way the better player. So skill is directly involved.

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[Bo0t]Lucifer
post Mar 5 2012, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE(Cystic @ Mar 6 2012, 02:10 AM)
QUOTE([Bo0t�)
Lucifer,Mar 5 2012, 04:26 PM]
QUOTE(Cystic @ Mar 6 2012, 01:40 AM)
Imo this just shows pure lack of skill.

The game of Deathmatch should not be turned into who can be the lamest with their walls.
*




Skill has nothing to do with presenting a strategy , plus you always have the disadvantage of not microing your army while you wall your towers so its still something hard to pull off effectively.

Technically , these arent wall sections + they are used in supremacy + it is not a form of bug abuse .

Is there no way to please you :baby: ?
*



You are wrong. If your "Strategy" Is to be as lame with walls as possible then so be it but trust me if you beat anyone you are in no way the better player. So skill is directly involved.
*



There have been a lot of "lame" strategies for years now , DM players just dont tend to accept any new ones .How come the fact that Archaic Age Merc'ing shouldnt be allowed since the fact that they are renewed when you advance by Hathor which is clearly a bug abuse is never brought up while a simple tower walling technique is shot down so quickly ? :chinese:


Furthermore , what you said about skill and wall abuse never going together is balderash . Maybe a quote of your own clanmate should clear that up :

QUOTE(HaUnTeD_GaNg_LdR @ Feb 12 2012, 10:13 PM)
WHAT ABOUT EKIN AND HIS WALLS?
*



This post has been edited by [Bo0t]Lucifer: Mar 5 2012, 03:57 PM

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DoD_Nakamura
post Mar 5 2012, 03:57 PM
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Agreed with Luci.
It's not up to the unskilled to decide what requires skills and what doesn't.

This post has been edited by [Bo0T]Nakamura: Mar 5 2012, 03:59 PM

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BoIt
post Mar 5 2012, 04:46 PM
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When this game first came out walls were hardly used. As the game progressed and people got better at multi-tasking and thus raiding better people were losing to this type of tactic too much, whether due to having an immobile army or simply not being able to be in 2 places at once because your multi-tasking not > his multi-tasking or for whatever other reason. Thus a tactic had to be made to deal with it. This tactic was walls.

It wasn't to lame or prevent people from killing stuff it was simply to slow them down so you could reposition your army to deal with the incoming threat.

As walls were explored more and more it was found that their benefits were more than just to slow their enemy down while raiding. It was also a viable option to simply slow your enemy down for other reasons. For example: You could use walls to grab all your eco ups and then produce military and not be at risk of losing all your villagers and thus be ahead economically while giving up map-control instead of losing all your vills and losing map-control haha.

Now if we convert this thought of slowing down the enemy to DM it's easily exactly the same concept, except that it will slow them down more because buildings are full upgraded. Then it comes down to decision making of how to deal with the incoming threat of a side build or a mass siege or whatever else happens in DM.

However, and this is a large however. It makes the game boring as hell to not only play but also to watch because of the delaying aspect of walls. Age of mythology is already an inherently slow game to play and walls do make it feel slower and dragged out.

The use of walls has also evolved over the course of aom's history and whatever is being said in this thread has already been explored I guarantee you this.

In closing, if you want boring dry matches abuse walls to your hearts content. If you want exciting matches then don't use walls or towers at all and play like a man, not only is it more fun but it also takes a lot more skill, scouting and anticipation win.

This post has been edited by bidoof: Mar 5 2012, 04:51 PM

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[Bo0t]Lucifer
post Mar 5 2012, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE(bidoof @ Mar 6 2012, 03:16 AM)
When this game first came out walls were hardly used. As the game progressed and people got better at multi-tasking and thus raiding better people were losing to this type of tactic too much, whether due to having an immobile army or simply not being able to be in 2 places at once because your multi-tasking not > his multi-tasking or for whatever other reason. Thus  a tactic had to be made to deal with it. This tactic was walls.

It wasn't to lame or prevent people from killing stuff it was simply to slow them down so you could reposition your army to deal with the incoming threat.

As walls were explored more and more it was found that their benefits were more than just to slow their enemy down while raiding. It was also a viable option to simply slow your enemy down for other reasons. For example: You could use walls to grab all your eco ups and then produce military and not be at risk of losing all your villagers and thus be ahead economically while giving up map-control instead of losing all your vills and losing map-control haha.

Now if we convert this thought of slowing down the enemy to DM it's easily exactly the same concept, except that it will slow them down more because buildings are full upgraded. Then it comes down to decision making of how to deal with the incoming threat of a side build or a mass siege or whatever else happens in DM.

However, and this is a large however. It makes the game boring as hell to not only play but also to watch because of the delaying aspect of walls. Age of mythology is already an inherently slow game to play and walls do make it feel slower and dragged out.

The use of walls has also evolved over the course of aom's history and whatever is being said in this thread has already been explored I guarantee you this.

In closing, if you want boring dry matches abuse walls to your hearts content. If you want exciting matches then don't use walls or towers at all and play like a man, not only is it more fun but it also takes a lot more skill, scouting and anticipation win.
*




Thumbs up for actually explaining yourself rather than just making a two line statement about what your opinion is . I am completely open to trying a game with no walling . The games that Me or Nakamura or many others for that matter used to play never consisted of even minimal walling until we started playing on Voobly with the ESO players .

I myself dont have a problem either way and i would play vs a person who doesnt make any walls as well as a complete wall nice girl. The only thing i have a problem with is the double standard , the fact that some forms of laming / bug abuse is accepted only because its been done for years whereas something new is shot down immediately .

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IamFalling
post Mar 5 2012, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE([Bo0T�)
Nakamura,Mar 5 2012, 04:57 PM]
Agreed with Luci.
It's not up to the unskilled to decide what requires skills and what doesn't.
*




HAHAHAHA

Let me put it this way... you have more losses in 1 vs 1 Dm rated this year. Then I have games played in my entire AOT career.

Never mind the fact that me and you have played no more then 8 games vs each other ever So don't try and talk poopie about skill level.

Secondly you people wonder why Deathmatch forums go in active all the time its because you guys get all butt hurt when people comment with their opinions.

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DoD_Nakamura
post Mar 5 2012, 06:50 PM
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Oh lets increase the number of those games.
I voted for you.
http://www.rts-sanctuary.com/RTS-Sanctuary...63&t=212308&st=

This post has been edited by [Bo0T]Nakamura: Mar 5 2012, 06:50 PM

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Action
post Mar 6 2012, 03:39 AM
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Why don't you play without walls completely? Would make for some interesting games

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BoIt
post Mar 6 2012, 03:49 AM
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You should read the end of my post Action. ^^



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