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PTR 1.3.3 gets an update!, some slight changes!
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bLo0d
post May 7 2011, 12:20 PM
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adding in cost of drone for anything is retarded because every single zerg building is cheaper than its counterpart, cheaper gas, cheaper expo building,etc.. using larva as production.. this is all implemented in general to compensate for losing drones.

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blade55555
post May 7 2011, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE(dom_dom666 @ May 7 2011, 03:10 AM)
QUOTE(White_Pointer @ May 6 2011, 07:16 PM)
QUOTE(Druidz.Patjuh @ May 6 2011, 09:26 PM)
Well you forget that missle turrets cost 100 mineral instead of 75, and when you build them it stands, cannot be moved, and will only be able to shoot, kill... or die if not repaired in time.

Spore Crawlers cost significantly less, have auto regen,


Consider this:

- Cost of a spore crawler is actually 125 minerals as you need to sacrifice a drone. Also keep in mind you need to spend another 50 minerals to replace that lost drone

- Missile turret DPS: 27.9. Spore crawler DPS: 17.4

- Missile turret build time: 25 seconds. Spore crawler build time: 30 seconds (not including drone)

- Missile turret range: 7 (upgradeable to 8). Spore crawler range: 7

- Missile turret armour: 0 (upgradeable to 2). Spore crawler armour: 1

- Missile turret HP: 250. Spore crawler HP: 400

- Missile turrets can be repaired (need SCV's), spore crawlers can be transfused (need queen energy)

So really, when you compare the two, the only real advantage the spore crawler has over the turret, aside from it's ability to reposition, is its HP (and it should have more, because it costs more). The turret outperforms the crawler in every other area, including having upgrades to increase its range and increase its armour. The actual DPS difference between the two is pretty scary.
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dood I never see terran makin upgrade on turret. And dont forget ur loosin 25sec of mining while u build it. So cost wize its pretty much the same. 125 compare to 100. Turret have a better DPS but on the other hand the spore got like 2x more HP. SO....
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Dude you can repair it so like 9 muta's can't kill it, while if you have 3-4 banshee's you can kill the spore crawler lol.

And Druidz this wont' be imba this won't even be close -_-.

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Druidz.Patjuh
post May 7 2011, 02:26 PM
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Druidz is my team, Patjuh is my name, so you can call me Patjuh.

We'll see how it works out :)

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White_Pointer
post May 7 2011, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE(JiNxXx @ May 7 2011, 02:52 PM)
the thing I'm looking at is the dps + the fact that turrets have amazing splash damage.
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Yeah that's what surprised me the most...I mean yeah I knew turrets were better and all but that DPS difference is insane. It does almost 1.75 times the damage of a spore.

QUOTE(dom_dom666 @ May 7 2011, 01:10 PM)
dood I never see terran makin upgrade on turret. And dont forget ur loosin 25sec of mining while u build it. So cost wize its pretty much the same. 125 compare to 100. Turret have a better DPS but on the other hand the spore got like 2x more HP. SO....
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It's probably because the turret is so amazing already that it hardly even needs those upgrades - but they are there to take advantage of should a terran player want them. Having said that I have seen terran players get these upgrades in competitive games - usually around the time they get their third.

QUOTE(Druidz.Patjuh @ May 7 2011, 05:06 PM)
I think it's a lil bit too easy to say that a spore crawler costs 125 minerals as the drone you use obviously has first been whining for a while, it's not like you make a drone and use it straight away after it's popping out for a spore crawler (usually not the case) so the drone has had some mining time and thus in theory it may even have mined enough to at least say he played it break-even for his own cost :P


You're also not taking into account you need to spend another 50 minerals to replace that lost drone too.

QUOTE(Druidz.Patjuh @ May 7 2011, 05:06 PM)
Anyway, the reason I think rerooting with only 6s is imba is bc the sporecrawler has thusmany health and a fast reroot that it would make refined air builds probably useless... again, we'll see how it works out, I just feel 6s is imba :)
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There isn't an air unit in the entire game that can't fly away and attack somewhere else while the spore crawler in moving and then burrowing itself. I think you are worrying about nothing.

QUOTE(bLo0d @ May 8 2011, 03:20 AM)
adding in cost of drone for anything is retarded because every single zerg building is cheaper than its counterpart, cheaper gas, cheaper expo building,etc.. using larva as production.. this is all implemented in general to compensate for losing drones.
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Ummm...duh? And why do you think the actual buildings are cheaper? It's because the cost of the drone is factored in. So you can't really look at the cost of a zerg evo chamber by itself, once you factor in the cost of the drone it becomes the same price as an ebay.

This post has been edited by White_Pointer: May 8 2011, 01:17 AM

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dom_dom666
post May 8 2011, 07:22 AM
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[/quote]

Ummm...duh? And why do you think the actual buildings are cheaper? It's because the cost of the drone is factored in. So you can't really look at the cost of a zerg evo chamber by itself, once you factor in the cost of the drone it becomes the same price as an ebay.
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[/quote]
Ur so strong in match
hatch cost 300 + 50 mins for the drone = 350
CC/nexus cost 400 (for terran ur loosin minin time) = 400 mins
350= 400 mins :thumbsup:

This post has been edited by dom_dom666: May 8 2011, 07:22 AM

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Moose
post May 8 2011, 08:25 AM
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None of these comparisons really work

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bLo0d
post May 8 2011, 12:06 PM
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white pointer did u just argue against what i said by saying exactly what i had just said..?

This post has been edited by bLo0d: May 8 2011, 03:43 PM

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bLo0d
post May 8 2011, 12:09 PM
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and why is every1 saying u should add +50 minerals to the actual "cost" of a building that is already cheaper solely to compensate for losing the drone rofl holy fk

This post has been edited by bLo0d: May 8 2011, 12:13 PM

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blade55555
post May 8 2011, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE(bLo0d @ May 8 2011, 05:09 PM)
and why is every1 saying u should add +50 minerals to the actual "cost" of a building that is already cheaper solely to compensate for losing the drone rofl holy fk
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are you fruiting retarded? Too make a drone = 50 minerals. When you make a building you LOSE that drone. That is 50 minerals going into + the cost of the building. Jesus christ your stupidity is amazing.

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White_Pointer
post May 8 2011, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(dom_dom666 @ May 8 2011, 10:22 PM)
Ur so strong in match
hatch cost 300 + 50 mins for the drone = 350
CC/nexus cost 400 (for terran ur loosin minin time) = 400 mins
350= 400 mins  :thumbsup:
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You might notice through your super powers of observation that I didn't mention the hatchery. I specifically compared the evo chamber and the ebay as an example.

ebay - 125 minerals
evo chamber: 75 minerals + 50 minerals for drone = 125 minerals

Do I need to make that clearer for you?

QUOTE
and why is every1 saying u should add +50 minerals to the actual "cost" of a building that is already cheaper solely to compensate for losing the drone


That's exactly why you need to add 50 minerals to the cost of each building, especially when you are doing race comparisons.

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JiNxXx
post May 9 2011, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE(blade55555 @ May 9 2011, 08:23 AM)
QUOTE(bLo0d @ May 8 2011, 05:09 PM)
and why is every1 saying u should add +50 minerals to the actual "cost" of a building that is already cheaper solely to compensate for losing the drone rofl holy fk
*



are you fruiting retarded? Too make a drone = 50 minerals. When you make a building you LOSE that drone. That is 50 minerals going into + the cost of the building. Jesus christ your stupidity is amazing.
*



:sleeping:

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Druidz.Patjuh
post May 9 2011, 05:03 AM
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Settle down children, no need to start becoming offensive in your posts.

This post has been edited by Druidz.Patjuh: May 9 2011, 05:03 AM

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Moose
post May 9 2011, 05:54 AM
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+1

chill out

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Elothis
post May 9 2011, 09:35 AM
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i know what blood meant: it was said that the drone isnt worth 50 minerals, cause it already mined some stuff etc., but its already cheaper than 400 minerals without adding this to the final score.

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bLo0d
post May 9 2011, 09:56 PM
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Hm I guess in a literal sense that you're correct, blade, if you make a drone solely to make a building without mining. Like, if instead of drones, you had to use 2 zerglings to make a building, then it would make sense to literally add 50 minerals to the cost of a building. But, I think drones pay for themselves by mining minerals/gas, negating that +50. Of course you can always argue that 50 minerals on a drone is 50 minerals lost regardless of if that drone mines the whole map on its own. Because you would have all the minerals on the map in the bank but you had to pay 50 minerals for a drone to get it :(. I don't think you can mine out the whole map with 2 zerglings though. I guess its just perspective. Sorry I offended you. :)

This post has been edited by bLo0d: May 9 2011, 10:21 PM



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