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TAD Tournament - Tournament Information
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Alaron
post Dec 25 2014, 11:45 AM
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Well, H2O and I were discussing this the other day, and we actually just decided to axe GP; the middle TP is simply too imbalanced and the map is overplayed anyway. This was the list we have so far:

1. Kamchatka (Group Stages)
2. High Plains
3. Hudson Bay
4. Siberia
5. Arizona
6. Mongolia
7. Deccan
8. Saguenay (Possibly FP, to fix natives)
9. Andes (FP 1.2)
10. New England
11. Arkansas

Overall a very balanced selection of maps, despite the lack of GP; and the first 3 maps are all new maps. Amhaye must've died or something, because he hasn't been around to update the site =P

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Umeu
post Dec 25 2014, 06:40 PM
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QUOTE(Neur0n @ Dec 25 2014, 03:24 AM)
Why not just simply play FP 1.2, if you go to such great lengths to fix the imbalance in the game by making up such complicated rules, that more than 100 players will have trouble understanding or following.

Or do the whole tourney exclusively with euro civs (no Otto) and then nobody will complain about lame stuff. It might actually be more impressive if a player can win the tourney without  ever using Iro, India, Otto, etc. So why not do a tourney without them?
*



i dont think its more impressive actually. what actually would be impressive is winning a tournament with lets say russia when iro otto india arent banned. if they are, then i dont see why it would be impressive. india for example is actually a much harder civ to master and properly play than france for example. sure 10/10 is strong but its also easily scouted and neutered if you respond adequately. iro isnt that hard, but not easier either than france or your average euro civ. otto ofc is pretty ez :P

anyway, i'd rather not see any restrictions beyond banning a used civ, after a win only, or win or loss, i dunno yet.

aoe is always going to have civ imbalances, the only way to fix this is by playing only mirrors and having a map set which is balanced, garjas maps may allow for this, so its something to consider for a different tournament. but at the same time i think the variaty and your ability to adapt to this is also a skill that should be rewarded. some people are good at mirrors, others are good at understanding the weaknesses of your opponents civ, and again others are good at exploiting the weaknesses of your opponents playstyle.

if we are discussing lame civs, then i would also say ban lame play, and thus play only landmaps. probably ones that cant be walled. there will be no end to the rule set... so i favor as few rules as possible.


ps deccan not balanced bro :P

This post has been edited by Umeu: Dec 25 2014, 06:47 PM

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Garja
post Dec 25 2014, 07:44 PM
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I dont know where it came from but favoring euro civs over others is a nonsense bias. Unless you talk about spain or ports MUs are no way more interesting than let's say iro mirror or india mirror.

About maps, I'm fixing all.of the previous released ones, improving resource balance or even adding some new variations

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Neur0n
post Dec 26 2014, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(Garja @ Dec 26 2014, 03:44 AM)
I dont know where it came from but favoring euro civs over others is  a nonsense bias
*


Yes, it's a nonsense bias, but remember that TWC and TAD civs were not made to be balanced, they were made so that people would buy the expansions. They were made OP, uberunique, etc, on purpose to attract more buyers.

One more thing, think about this: what do you do when Microsoft dissolved the company you were working for (Ensemble), then you get hired by another company and then you get a contract to make another patch for TAD? You do your job, no hard feelings, right? Or maybe you screw the balance a bit to throw a hot potato on Microsoft's hands, so that later they would have to employ you again to keep fixing it. But, damn, Microsoft stopped caring, in the meantime. That's how I see the picture. The former employees from ES were probably super-pissed when they made REpatch, so they had no reason to make it as balanced as possible.

So, you're looking for reason where there wasn't really much, there was more retaliation, most probably.

My 2 cents.

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Alaron
post Dec 27 2014, 04:09 AM
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That doesn't change the fact that most of the TAD/TWC civs really aren't all that imbalanced. Regardless of intention, that's how it turned out; the bias is merely the result of people not knowing how to counter them.

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Umeu
post Dec 27 2014, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE(Alaron @ Dec 27 2014, 09:09 AM)
That doesn't change the fact that most of the TAD/TWC civs really aren't all that imbalanced. Regardless of intention, that's how it turned out; the bias is merely the result of people not knowing how to counter them.
*



and they will never get to figure it out, because one of the best, if not the best way to figure out a civ is by playing it yourself. but all these white knights say its lame and then refuse to play the civ and play vs it. they create their crazy perfect world and then try to impose this on other people in a competitive setting. thats absurd.

imo the best way to counter the use of op civs is by making sure your mappool is well tailored and designed for this. for example, making a balanced map of bayou your 3rd map in the pool would go a long way towards making sure that iro, otto, and to a lesser extent india and japan arent chosen on that map, because the mapdesign has features that all work against these civs.

no tps for iro and otto, bad building spots and no herdables for india and japan, meaning the agra and shrines are hard to be placed. also small rush distance + bad building spots makes it hard for japan to hold rushes. a few tweaks to the map as suggested by neuron, and you have a good competitive map. sure japan and india are harder to hurt by choosing the right maps, but its fairly clear that japan does worse on small open maps than on huge maps with lots of chokes. and that india is also favored by tps herdables and open maps

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Mundzuk
post Dec 28 2014, 09:12 PM
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The fact you are forced to play defensive vs some civs and automatically give up map control is absurd. Getting outmassed just because of civs is ridiculous as well. What kind of strange reality you live in Umeu? I've noticed for a long time all you did was lame just because you knew those were no go to civs. Some people actually have standards.

lame civs have done well to kill AOE3 and you should know that

This post has been edited by Mundzuk: Dec 28 2014, 09:13 PM

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Umeu
post Dec 29 2014, 06:33 AM
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QUOTE(Mundzuk @ Dec 29 2014, 02:12 AM)
The fact you are forced to play defensive vs some civs and automatically give up map control is absurd. Getting outmassed just because of civs is ridiculous as well. What kind of strange reality you live in Umeu? I've noticed for a long time all you did was lame just because you knew those were no go to civs. Some people actually have standards.

lame civs have done well to kill AOE3 and you should know that
*



pretty much everything you said is wrong... but ok.

lol standards? standards of what? its a game... and to win everything is permitted within the INTENTIONAL design of the game. russia forces you to give up mapcontrol, yet nobody would say russia is the top civ or op in aoe. A german towerrush forces you to give up mapcontrol, same story. fruit... even ports 10/10 FORCES YOU to give up mapcontrol. you are talking complete bs.
you dont even know what makes civs such as iro otto and india op... so please keep out of the discussion.

as i've said time and time again, laming is a style of play and every civ has a way of laming it. OP is a design or balancing issue, there are op units, such as urumi, bowrider, abus guns, sepoy, yumi etc but only a few civs are really OP. probably only iro and otto. however these civs are really only op on some maps. so the best way to make sure they aren't spammed in a tournament is by choosing the right mappool. if a player decides to go otto on painted desert and smashes a brits, that is very good accomplishment.

if you want no op, no imbalance, you should play 1 map without treasures and tp's and only mirror. GL HF with that and your standards. but you should know its just your twisted mind making up excuses for the fact you arent good enough to beat these civs. neither in a different mu or a mirror.

This post has been edited by Umeu: Dec 29 2014, 06:35 AM

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Fard
post Dec 29 2014, 11:44 AM
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NO flame pls

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SwissPro94
post Dec 30 2014, 10:52 PM
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QUOTE(Fard @ Dec 29 2014, 11:44 AM)
NO flame pls
*



Fatkid? Nolifekidz? Emokidz?

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Mundzuk
post Dec 31 2014, 08:37 AM
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Are you fruiting deluded Umeu? You use OP lame civs for most of your wins and you say it's not true? The fact you even bring up ports 10/10 invalidates your argument. I can do no vill age up n poopie and still have map control but it's not considered "OP". I'm sure you don't need me to explain why it isn't.

Laming is a style of playing? People practically reherse OP strats and get to brig+ with it. It's not a way of playing, it's just abuse.

This post has been edited by Mundzuk: Dec 31 2014, 08:38 AM

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Garja
post Dec 31 2014, 09:29 AM
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QUOTE(Mundzuk @ Dec 31 2014, 03:37 PM)
Are you fruiting deluded Umeu? You use OP lame civs for most of your wins and you say it's not true? The fact you even bring up ports 10/10 invalidates your argument. I can do no vill age up n poopie and still have map control but it's not considered "OP". I'm sure you don't need me to explain why it isn't.

Laming is a style of playing? People practically reherse OP strats and get to brig+ with it. It's not a way of playing, it's just abuse.
*


If someone is nub is gonna be noob with top civs too.

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TheMista
post Dec 31 2014, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE(Garja @ Dec 31 2014, 02:29 PM)
QUOTE(Mundzuk @ Dec 31 2014, 03:37 PM)
Are you fruiting deluded Umeu? You use OP lame civs for most of your wins and you say it's not true? The fact you even bring up ports 10/10 invalidates your argument. I can do no vill age up n poopie and still have map control but it's not considered "OP". I'm sure you don't need me to explain why it isn't.

Laming is a style of playing? People practically reherse OP strats and get to brig+ with it. It's not a way of playing, it's just abuse.
*


If someone is nub is gonna be noob with top civs too.
*




IF you guys are going to complain about op civs , complaining here , or the players that play them wont do any good. Its the developers fault that left the balance to as it is . If someone wants to win in a tourmanet will use everything in his power/reach to win an abuse, a bug etc , as long its not a cheat it should be ecceptable.

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Umeu
post Dec 31 2014, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE(Mundzuk @ Dec 31 2014, 01:37 PM)
Are you fruiting deluded Umeu? You use OP lame civs for most of your wins and you say it's not true? The fact you even bring up ports 10/10 invalidates your argument. I can do no vill age up n poopie and still have map control but it's not considered "OP". I'm sure you don't need me to explain why it isn't.

Laming is a style of playing? People practically reherse OP strats and get to brig+ with it. It's not a way of playing, it's just abuse.
*



are you stupid? I never said Iro otto india etc aren't OP, im saying you shouldnt fruiting confuse 2 different things and make clear what you mean with what you say.

OVERPOWERED and LAME are 2 different things. Any civ can be lamed, not every civ is overpowered. And when civs are overpowered, this is mostly because they have a combination of elements which arent properly balanced. Sioux is like a big exception because really the only broken thing about sioux is their bowrider. the rest of what they can make is pretty poopie.

You say these civs are OP because you get outmassed and they take mapcontrol from you. Well by that definition russia should be one of the most OP civs in the game... while in fact its the opposite. Hence your entire argument falls flat on the ground. The reason these civs are considered OP is because they can apply insane pressure while still maintaining an eco or tech advantage. AKA they don't really sacrifice anything in order to do this, whereas most other civs do have to.

this argument about just training op strats is complete bs because if that was the case any noob could have been brig with spain on nilla, yet it has the lowest winrate of all civs except brits. the reason you fail against all dumb poopie such as 12 sepoy rush is because you are making mistakes. not because that rush is so particularly good.

but keep up this little cry cry dance you people do every time there is a tournament.

ps i can beat you with any civ :) even if u play iro/otto/india

This post has been edited by Umeu: Dec 31 2014, 12:43 PM

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[TOAO] SoldieR
post Jan 2 2015, 12:57 AM
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interesting...
aomers always flamed better than aoe3ers



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